What's the "reasonability" of useing a VHS-C camera?

[CindyLynn]

I've mentioned before I have more then one old VHS-C camera, and a "Dazzle DVD Recorder" that "dizitizes" the output on the VHS-C cameras. What I end up with is a "mini dv act alike."

I'm thinking about buying a new camera. A nice. New camera. But I'd be doing it for "quality" reasons only. So do you think I should stay with my old cameras?

I was considering just buying an APTEK A-HD camera or a Canon HV20.

Should I stay with my gear, junk it and get an a-hd, or dish out the cash and buy the HV20.

Also, if Mogulville has any suggestions as to a camera [doesn't need to be HD, just not low quality] that _looks_ good, let me know. I need to look professional, so the aptek isent' really #1.
-- and before EVERYONE says "GO HV20!!!!!!," I really dont want too. I dont have the cash nor would I want to spend it on that. If I _was_ going to spend the cash i'd go for a

[WesScog]

What do you REALLY want to do with it? If you want to start making professional stuff, an HV20 is a great camera for smaller productions, and will look fine blown up at festivals and stuff.

The APTEK's are great little cameras for the price, and if you're just going to be posting stuff on YouTube or Vimeo, they look fine.

You'll see a MASSIVE improvement in quality, and have a much easier time, I think you'll enjoy the upgrade.

[elscottomagnifico]

What budget would like to remain within then?

The HV20 is a fantastic camera, which is further aided by its low price (when compared to similarly capable cams). It's not cheap in comparison to consumer cams, but it is affordable. If you want to upgrade from an HV20 (in picture/video quality, not just a couple more manual controls) you will have to spend quite a bit more - that is why many people suggest them (even if it is at the outer edge of the budget).

Now, the camera that works for you depends on your budget and what you want to do - there is no best overall camera (just better cameras - they all have issues), but there is always a best camera for your current needs.

[CindyLynn]

I'm not a 'youtube filmmaker' and don't want that gear.
The HV20 is NOT priced low. It may be priced low for a camera in its style, but as you said, "It's not cheap in comparison to consumer cams" the aptek is not a Youtube camera. Youtube compresses videos, no point in getting a great camera for youtube. I'm a DIY kinda gal and my production company uses a Canon XL2 camera. I've also handeled an APTEK a hd and ALSO a VHS-C camera. Among the three, the XL2 has the most options -- but when the bloody hell am I going to use them all?

The only difference between those cameras is the video quality! And that aptek gives a better quality then the XL2!!

-- what I dident want was a bunch of people [and this is what i've got] saying, "GO HV20!!!!!!!!"

[elscottomagnifico]

I'm not a 'youtube filmmaker' and don't want that gear.
The HV20 is NOT priced low. It may be priced low for a camera in its style, but as you said, "It's not cheap in comparison to consumer cams" the aptek is not a Youtube camera. Youtube compresses videos, no point in getting a great camera for youtube. I'm a DIY kinda gal and my production company uses a Canon XL2 camera. I've also handeled an APTEK a hd and ALSO a VHS-C camera. Among the three, the XL2 has the most options -- but when the bloody hell am I going to use them all?

The only difference between those cameras is the video quality! And that aptek gives a better quality then the XL2!!

-- what I dident want was a bunch of people [and this is what i've got] saying, "GO HV20!!!!!!!!"
You have very unrealistic hopes for video equipment then. Getting near the overall quality of an XL2 will not be achieved for a couple hundred dollars in a consumer cam. Even the HV needs proper use and lighting to rival the prosumer market of SD cams (HD alone does not equal better quality). If you want our help in finding a cam, don't come back with a "I don't want a bunch of people telling me to get an HV20, but that's all I get".

Instead answer the question that I asked you(otherwise it seems like you have already decided on what cam you want, which would mean that you are just looking for people to agree with you saying "Yeah, the Aptek is awesome and outdoes $1000 cams"). So, here is my question again.


WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?


Also, the HV is priced pretty low. Anyone who saves up for a little while can pick one up pretty easily. Yes, it's not dirt cheap and it can't be picked up on a weeks pay from a part time job, but it's alot of cam for the money.

[CindyLynn]

WHAT IS YOUR BUDGET?
See I have no budget set. My budget is however much I need to spend to get a good camera. So that's why I diden't ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, Mr. R. Lee Emery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Lee_Ermey).

You have very unrealistic hopes for video equipment then. Getting near the overall quality of an XL2 will not be achieved for a couple hundred dollars in a consumer cam.See here now. I'm not an idiot. I was clear that I've used an XL2 and can see for myself that the video quality is just about the same as with an Aptek A-HD. I've shot side by side outside [so in good lighting] and the definition is about the same.
The only thing I saw was that the XL2 uses 3CCDs and the Aptek A HD does not.
Now that's not that big of a deal.

-- but wait. Theres. I went out and collected XL2 (http://www.vimeo.com/447508) footage and AHD (http://www.vimeo.com/1087475?pg=embed&sec=1087475&hd=1) footage for ya. Just click on the camera to see uncompressed footage from each. I'm not seeing the XL2's AWE factor here.
So to top the cake off, I went and found this HV20 (http://www.vimeo.com/464630) footage. Out of them all, I the best IMAGE QUALITY, PRICE, and OVER ALL camera, is the A-HD

(HD alone does not equal better quality)You ARE right. In a way. Your saying, "you can make HD look bad by shooting without the lights on" and your right. And you could have a professional SD camera give much better picture then a low level HD camera.

Also, the HV is priced pretty low. Anyone who saves up for a little while can pick one up pretty easily. Yes, it's not dirt cheap and it can't be picked up on a weeks pay from a part time job, but it's alot of cam for the money.Ohkay. So if the HV is low, why dont I just "save a little while more" and pick up a prosumer camera?

[elscottomagnifico]

See I have no budget set. My budget is however much I need to spend to get a good camera. So thats why I diden't ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, Mr. R. Lee Emery.



See here now. I'm not an idiot. I was clear that i've used an XL2 and can see for myself that the video quality is not that great. The only thing I saw was that the XL2 uses 3CCDs and the Aptek A HD does not.
I think you're trying to refer to R. Lee Eremy. The differences between the Aptek the XL2 aren't just that the XL2 uses 3CCDs. I won't explain everything because a google search (or possibly a forum search) could point out the specs.

If you want a passable cam for internet work and home things, the Aptek is fantastic. If you want to do something more legitamite, the HV20 is where you'll want to look (it's the best you can get under $1000). You just seem to have issues with anyone suggesting the HV20, which is what you'll be suggested if you say that your budget is as high as you need for a nice cam (while still being on a semi-low budget).

If your budget needs to be lower, say so and you'll get suggestions geared toward that. If you just want to try to complain and argue so that people will tell you the Aptek is something that it isn't, you might want to go somewhere else.

[elscottomagnifico]

-- but wait. Theres. I went out and collected XL2 (http://www.vimeo.com/447508) footage and AHD (http://www.vimeo.com/1087475?pg=embed&sec=1087475&hd=1) footage for ya. Just click on the camera to see uncompressed footage from each. I'm not seeing the XL2's AWE factor here.
So to top the cake off, I went and found this HV20 (http://www.vimeo.com/464630) footage. Out of them all, I the best IMAGE QUALITY, PRICE, and OVER ALL camera, is the A-HDNot the greatest choice for comparison footage. Shakey, poorly shot (and low light) XL2 footage, Low light (and attempted artistic) HV20 footage and full daylight (look what the cam can do type) AHD footage. If you want to see a full comparison, you need similarly lit footage (stable shots help too) - unless you want to try to bias your comparison, of course.

You seem set on the AHD, so why do you feel the need to ask any of us for opinions? You only argue to try to stand by your choice. I say, get the A HD and enjoy your cam.

[CindyLynn]

Really.. what happened... was when I was 7, my father was recording home movies with an HV20, and.... it exploded, killing him and totally setting fire to our family home...


--- Sorry. I had to say something to the tune of that... now.

I diden't mean to upset you. And I'm not 'biased' to the A-HD. I'm biased to its low price and high quality! I dont want to THROW money at a camera if I dont need too. I mean I'm not mad at you for mentioning the HV20 -- its just obvious its not the greatist camera ever, as people buy consumer camera's below its quality &; prosumer cameras above its quality. I've researched pages like this (http://fototramp.blogspot.com/2007/06/aiptek-go-hd-vs-sanyo-xacti-vpc-hd1-or.html) before I desided to 'attack' the HV20. While even that site calls it a "toy like camera" it really does give good recordings. Let me explain how my head works. Say you had a XL2, It'd be like me constantly suggesting you get a RED ONE... Honestly, I know all of the differences between an xl2 and an ahd, trust me. Like you know how the red one is better then your camera, some of the features.... The zoom, the mic, the output, the DV tapes [I say DV tapes arn't great. Flash memory is better] the focus ring and all the settings...The term, is overkill. You dont need a RED ONE and I dont need an HV20. All I asked is for some good camera suggestions that are a little less pricey then an HV20.And I then suggested the Aptek A-HD because its cheep as dirt and shoots in high quality.
But I AM open for suggestions. Thats why I have a thread.

[elscottomagnifico]

I diden't mean to upset you. And I'm not 'biased' to the A-HD. I'm biased to its low price and high quality! I dont want to THROW money at a camera if I dont need too. I mean I'm not mad at you for mentioning the HV20 -- its just obvious its not the greatist camera ever, as people buy consumer camera's below its quality &; prosumer cameras above its quality.

Let me explain. Say you had a XL2, It'd be like me constantly suggesting you get a RED ONE...

Honestly, I know all of the differences between an xl2 and an ahd, trust me.
The zoom, the mic, the output, the DV tapes [I say DV tapes arn't great. Flash memory is better] the focus ring and all the settings...

The term, is overkill. You dont need a RED ONE and I dont need an HV 20. All I asked is for some godd camera suggestions that are a little less pricey then an HV20.You do seem to have issues with the HV20. There is no greatest cam ever, just the best cam for a given circumstance. There is always something above and below a given cam that people will buy instead (whether they need the features or the budget). If you see the HV20 as your RED cam, then most any few hundred dollar cam will do fine for you. You seem to have decided that that the A-HD is the best for you circumstances and, if so, then go for it. It is a nice cam for the money.

DV vs. Solid State or HDD cams is an entirely different discussion (in another thread earlier actually). Basically, current codecs used in Solid State and HDD cams use a bit rate that prevents them from surpassing DV technology (the cams have issues with ghosting and motion rendering). The codecs themselves aren't the problem, nor are the cams (the codec is actually much more efficient than what mini-dv uses). The problem is in the current bit-rate used, which causes excessive compression and thus motion rendering issues. In a couple years, the bit rate will be raised and mini-dv will be entirely surpassed, but for now the reasoning for HDD cams is the ease of transfer.

The A-HD shoots in High Definition, not High Quality. It's a common misconception that HD means better quality. Don't get me wrong, it is a good quality cam for the money, but it isn't amazing.

[xsanmdanx]

I have Aiptek AHD200. I love it. It has great quality, and it's easy to use. We've made one commercial with it on my last job, and the customer was more than pleased on our "professional equipment". I've used Panasonic DVX100A and B and HV20. And A-HD, and for my needs for making short films it's just enough. But for when making professional stuff, I recommend DVX100 or Canon XL. I don't recommend HV20 for pro-stuff.

[elscottomagnifico]

I have Aiptek AHD200. I love it. It has great quality, and it's easy to use. We've made one commercial with it on my last job, and the customer was more than pleased on our "professional equipment". I've used Panasonic DVX100A and B and HV20. And A-HD, and for my needs for making short films it's just enough. But for when making professional stuff, I recommend DVX100 or Canon XL. I don't recommend HV20 for pro-stuff.When it comes to pro level jobs, the look of your equipment really does start to matter. Even though the HV20 will give a very nice picture that would be comparable to the DVX100 or XL (if lit and post processed correctly), it will never look like a big pro cam. It isn't entirely unheard of for someone to bring an older shoulder mount VHS cam to keep the pro look, while also shooting with something like an HV20 or another smaller bodied - less pro looking - modern cam(saying it's the backup cam or B-roll, while actually using it for the majority of the project)

[Skycarl]

Cindy, I think the big question is still what do you want to do and how much dough do
you have to do it with. You probably will get a lot of generic answers until then.

[Davidian]

I would say if you are satisfied with your current setup there is no real reason to upgrade. If you have grown tired of what you have, you need to think about what aspects of your gear aren't up to your standards and find something that is. I would suggest making the largest upgrade you are comfortable with (I used to make little upgrades and quickly became dissatisfied and upgraded again. Doing like this I spent way more than I needed to).

I have several cameras, (dvx100, gl2, 2 sony trv's, and yes an hv30) and like them each for different reasons. Seems like there is always one that does at least something better than the other. None of them are the "complete package" in my eyes. I have not used an APTEK A-HD, but I am now wanting to check one out. At the moment I am saving for an XL2... I am sure I will like it as well.

[cubes]

I'm sorry, I do not mean to be rude, but it seems to me that someone who is a camera operation expert would be "in the know" about all aspects of price versus performance, and giving advice instead of asking for it. True, if your current setup works, that leaves more money for other filmmaking needs.

[CindyLynn]

Hmm. Interesting. Well I know much about the many features of cameras, and the "aspects of price versus performance" issue, as you said. But what good would a thread be if it was just me saying, "look what I know?" Thanks to the mogulers that posted a helpful reply.

I would say if you are satisfied with your current setup there is no real reason to upgrade. If you have grown tired of what you have, you need to think about what aspects of your gear aren't up to your standards and find something that is. I would suggest making the largest upgrade you are comfortable with (I used to make little upgrades and quickly became dissatisfied and upgraded again. Doing like this I spent way more than I needed to).

I have several cameras, (dvx100, gl2, 2 sony trv's, and yes an hv30) and like them each for different reasons. Seems like there is always one that does at least something better than the other. None of them are the "complete package" in my eyes. I have not used an APTEK A-HD, but I am now wanting to check one out. At the moment I am saving for an XL2... I am sure I will like it as well.
I think this is an interesting thing. When you go out to shoot a clip it makes you want to take all your gear, just-in-case. I'd be awk-stricken if you really had to USE all those cameras -- besides for soap opera style camera shifts. You must have started with an HV30 and kept upgrading.

And you know, the people who say that the "pro look" doesn't matter are wrong. I allways try to dress well, and be clean when filming. It brings respect. I all ways have a problem when I see a film maker that looks like he's been sleeping under a bridge. I mean it really screams, "Poor," "Unprofessional," and sometimes, "Idiot!" So if we want ourselves to look good, why not our gear?

http://www.pma-show.com/news_images/000010_canon_hv20.jpg
http://www.madjavaproductions.com/mediac/400_0/media/ATM4.jpg

So. What one do you think looks more professional? Because of this thread, my plan is that I should start with an APTEK, and then save for something like a XL2.

High Definition does generally mean higher quality. Could someone (if they where trying) throw togeather a camera that shoots in 1080x720 that has a horrable CMOS/CCD that takes a 640x480 picture and "blows it up" to HD? Yes. But that's uncommon.
I have Aiptek AHD200. I love it. It has great quality, and it's easy to use. We've made one commercial with it on my last job, and the customer was more than pleased on our "professional equipment". I've used Panasonic DVX100A and B and HV20. And A-HD, and for my needs for making short films it's just enough. But for when making professional stuff, I recommend DVX100 or Canon XL. I don't recommend HV20 for pro-stuff.You know, thanks alot. You have given what I think is a great reply, your saying what i've said before. Why buy an HV20? Its not great for "youtube shoots" and its not great for "pro shoots." I dont "allready have my mind made up," I just really like the looks of the camera and get "mixed reviews" of it. So before I pay half the money of an HV20 for an APTEK, I have to make sure it'll work.

[waveform]

I tried HV20's and took them back. Sorry, nice image and controls and stuff but felt like a toy, and I needed strong and the rolling shutter things removed it's main feature for me (I know I'm lighting blue touch paper here, but some balance won't go amiss, they are not the holy grail of cheap video cams). Try looking for a used HC1/3/5, I saw a new HC5 recently on an American site that was $399. As MiniDV is destined to be phased out in consumer cams Sony only make the HC7 in MiniDV now, and all of the former ones seem to be going cheap. You're going to find 'consumer' menus on low end Sony's, but so what?

[CindyLynn]

I tried HV20's and took them back. Sorry, nice image and controls and stuff but felt like a toy, and I needed strong and the rolling shutter things removed it's main feature for me (I know I'm lighting blue touch paper here, but some balance won't go amiss, they are not the holy grail of cheap video cams). Try looking for a used HC1/3/5, I saw a new HC5 recently on an American site that was $399. As MiniDV is destined to be phased out in consumer cams Sony only make the HC7 in MiniDV now, and all of the former ones seem to be going cheap. You're going to find 'consumer' menus on low end Sony's, but so what?

Thats really what I was getting at, it feels and looks like consumer camera. Even though it can record in HD, I'm thinking when I want to step up, I should go prosumer.
In the mean time, I was looking for something that works, but isen't more then like $300, because I dont want it to distract my saving for a $1500 prosumer camera.

[elscottomagnifico]

Thats really what I was getting at, it feels and looks like consumer camera. Even though it can record in HD, I'm thinking when I want to step up, I should go prosumer.
In the mean time, I was looking for something that works, but isen't more then like $300, because I dont want it to distract my saving for a $1500 prosumer camera.
$1500 for a prosumer cam won't go very far. You might be able to pull off a GL2 or something similar (then again, the price on something like a DVX may drop by the time you save up). The HV20 comes out with better footage than a GL2, but the GL2 has more controls. There's always a trade off.

The HV feels like a consumer cam because it is a consumer cam. It records fantastic footage (comparable to cams much more expensive than it), but no matter how you go about it, it will always be a consumer cam.

Also, just because a cam records HD it does not make it better than a nice SD camera. Resolution alone does not equate to picture quality. Yes, one pixel alone can easily look worse than say 200 together, but the difference from 720P to 480P is not as drastic.

It seems you need to equate the HV to a consumer cam that has no legitimate market; meanwhile feeling the A HD (to you) has quality that compares to (and you believe surpasses?) the HV.

You also seem to want everyone to bash the HV in a manner that makes your choice for the A HD seem good. The A HD won't feel like any less of a consumer cam, so why is your argument against the HV20 that it feels too consumer?

The A HD will give you good video for internet and home production (it'll have compression artifacts and issues if you try to go for full resolution). If that is what you want, go for it. If you want something that will let you produce high quality video for indie style use, an HV20 will do fine. If you want to try to make money/get hired, you'll want something much more substantial looking - the HV is not the best idea if you need to look pro (people won't take you seriously, no matter how good the footage looks).

[Davidian]

I think this is an interesting thing. When you go out to shoot a clip it makes you want to take all your gear, just-in-case. I'd be awk-stricken if you really had to USE all those cameras -- besides for soap opera style camera shifts. You must have started with an HV30 and kept upgrading.

The gear I bring depends on what I am going to be shooting that day. I have a lot of gear (not just cameras), and I am not going to lug it all to every shoot I do.

The HV30 wasn't my first camera, although I appreciate your disdain for them (makes for a good read). There are few things that I am that passionate about... what it must be like. My first camera was a VHS camera. I could not even begin to tell you the model, much less the brand. After that, I went through several Hi-8 models (mostly sonys). That was a big step for me once I could use firewire, I was finally able to see I wasn't as limited as I had thought.

What I like best about the HV30 (since that seems to be the topic) is it's small and replaceable. I can use it in crazy small places and I ALWAYS use it for a potential dangerous shot... like mounted to car, or on a crane over a lake. If it breaks, oh well, I am still covered under Best Buys service plan. It's totally a viable camera, for me anyway. I will at least keep it around until my service plan runs out.

[CindyLynn]

If you want to try to make money/get hired, you'll want something much more substantial looking - the HV is not the best idea if you need to look pro (people won't take you seriously, no matter how good the footage looks).Wait. Let me just quote that again:
(people won't take you seriously, no matter how good the footage looks)What was that?

...people won't take you seriously...FINALLY. You get it. Thank you for reading and understanding! This is exactly what i'm trying to get at. If i'm going to spend the cash [$500], I'll chunk out a little more cash, and save longer to get at LEAST a GL2 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/255811-REG/Canon_7920A001_GL2_Mini_DV_3CCD.html), because it acts, feels, and looks pro.

So why would I want an Aptek-AHD that's even LESS pro looking then the HV20? Because its cheep. And the footage is good and it will 'tide me over' until I can save up for a nice low end prosumer camera.


The gear I bring depends on what I am going to be shooting that day. I have a lot of gear (not just cameras), and I am not going to lug it all to every shoot I do.That's what I do. I lug quiet a bit to each shoot. Last shot I did professionally was a music video with the XL-2 camera my production company issued. I nabed my consumer cam [Its a canon] just in case we needed it. I also brought everything from the wide angel lens to the rain hood. Good thing because it rained, and we wanted to get some 'rain' shots.

-- one thing I've learned is, if you don't want to spend the money, your only getting crap gear.

What I like best about the HV30 (since that seems to be the topic) is it's small and replaceable. I can use it in crazy small places and I ALWAYS use it for a potential dangerous shot... like mounted to car, or on a crane over a lake. If it breaks, oh well, I am still covered under Best Buys service plan. It's totally a viable camera, for me anyway. I will at least keep it around until my service plan runs out.

That's how I feel about the A-HD. Word for word.

But thanks to all those who posted about the GL2, it seems to be a good camera for me, and i'll consider buying it. The price is right (http://cgi.ebay.com/Canon-GL2-GL-2-3CCD-Digital-Video-Camcorder_W0QQitemZ330252488448QQihZ014QQcategoryZ 11724QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem).


But does anyone else have other suggestions in the "good camera under $300" price range, that I could get until I've saved up the $1500 for the GL2?

[Davidian]

Good thing because it rained, and we wanted to get some 'rain' shots.

How did the rain shots turn out with the XL-2? I can never get it to look the way I want with my AG100. Is the video up online anywhere?

I have been listing some of my unused music gear on eBay to get some more fundage for an XL-2. I am nearly half way there! :fcross:

[CindyLynn]

Pretty good, I set it to 24p and got quiet a good cut. I don't have the footage per say. The camera was pointed down slightly and no water would get on the lens.
It came out well, I would have liked some external lighting, because it was quiet cloudy. You coulden't see much of the raindrops on 30FPS, but with 24p it came out quiet film like.

I'll try to dig up the clips of it -- it was not for me though, as I said, it was for a music video and sent on to there production company to do what they wish with it. They did not want me to edit the footage, only take it. Odd, I know.

Another note: I'm liking how the GL2 take flash memory too. That's nice. In a way this thread worked out.


*cough*
Davidian (http://forum.indymogul.com/member.php?u=26624) you know if you want to sell of one of your other cameras at a reasonable price I may just aid in the 'fundage' of your GL2... I'm looking for a nice cheep[er] camera to tide me over untill I've saved for my GL2.

[SobchakSecurity]

You might want to take a peek through the Camera Guide thread. A lot of people are looking for cameras around your budget and there are many suggestions over there:

http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=7166

[Flamekebab]

I tried to resist, but I feel the urgent need to correct the title:
"What's the rationale behind using a VHS-C camera?"

I feel better now.

[waveform]

Er, reasonability is an accepted noun, meaning ability to comply with rational and sound entities.

[Flamekebab]

I can't say I've ever heard it used. It sounds so awkward, especially when "rationale" fits the bill so much more neatly.

[waveform]

I think it's an Americanism.

[elscottomagnifico]

Don't be too trusting of the GL2 being fully pro looking. Commentary often goes to comparing it's build to a toy, but I guess to get the abilities it has, a plastic body isn't too bad of a trade off. The HV20 and GL2 are often compared footage-wise and the HV20 comes out on top. If your care is to the looks of a camera more than anything, why not try the DVC-15. You could pick one up pretty cheap used and it looks legit (if big = legit).

http://www.computervideo.net/june4.html

No one will take you seriously if you walk in with a plain small cam of any type (you'll need to have a bunch of cool stuff on it to make it look more pro - lens hoods help alot, believe it or not). Then again, people won't take you seriously if you're closed minded and post simply for the sake of arguing against a popular cam.

[elscottomagnifico]

FINALLY. You get it. Thank you for reading and understanding! This is exactly what i'm trying to get at. If i'm going to spend the cash [$500], I'll chunk out a little more cash, and save longer to get at LEAST a GL2 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/255811-REG/Canon_7920A001_GL2_Mini_DV_3CCD.html), because it acts, feels, and looks pro. Who are you trying to convince of anything? I already get that the HV looks like a consumer cam, because it is one. The reason people like them so much is because, even though the cam is consumer, its footage looks pro. A lens hood, a decent tripod, an external monitor and an external mic go a long way to making the HV look more legit.

My argument of not being taken seriously goes toward a "plain vanilla" HV with a cheap tripod at most. With some decent gear, you'll start to be taken at least somewhat seriously in more places (doing local commercials, working with a group, etc.). Also, for some reason, a cam being black seems to help alot (you'd have to go for an HV30 then).

If you want to be taken seriously everywhere, you'll need a shouldermount style cam or something very substantial looking.

In all honesty, the GL2 looks like plastic. Yes, it looks prosumer, but it still doesn't look at all pro. The HV's footage also turns out better than the GL2 - the GL2 just has a better manual control set. It's all a choice on trade offs.

I mean, I don't have anything against the GL2. It's a nice cam from the prosumer SD market, but it is still a plastic bodied smaller prosumer cam (still not substantial looking enough to be taken seriously everywhere). You could check out the Sony VX lineup if you want something that is a good balance of look to cost (with excellent lowlight).

[bobaandy1]

Has anyone looked at the hvr-hd1000u yet? Thats a shoulder-mount camera, but is stilll very cheap.

[CindyLynn]

Picked up a Canon Elura 60. Happened to find some guys around here selling it for like $100 or so. Nice camera for the price. I'm happy.

-- I'll still save up for a better camera in the prosumer range, but this should tide me over.

For those who think I got riped off: It has a MRSP of $699, came with a wide angel lens, and some tapes, and a 64 [lol] mb card. Not the worst deal.

Took a nice picture for you all:

http://i37.tinypic.com/10yp4c9.jpg

I could have got the aptek a-hd for $150, and I went to the store today to look at it.... I figured it was not worth it, it seemed like a "toy" that while it does shoot in HD, its too flimsy. The audio also really sucked. I allready have a VuPoint DV DA1 VP camera and it looked pretty much like it was the same thing with slightly better quality at the cost of sound...

I just let it go.

I'm still saving for a GL2 or a HVR (http://www.jr.com/sony/pe/SON_HVRHD1000U/). Both seem like great cameras for people with the money. I've got $1500 in savings right now, so I dont know what camera i'll get -- if I get one with that saving money at all. See "savings" are good to have, its not exactly the "buy a camera" fund.

[DocHoliday8403]

I have done some shots with an elura before and I have to say that the shots taken with it looked very good.

[CindyLynn]

I liked the SD card because it said it stores photographs AND video to the card...

Sadly it only records 340x280 resolution when recording to flash media mode!!

-- still a nice camera... I have $1500 saved up so far... Dont think I can get anything....

[EnipProductions]

Sick and tired of people saying "HV20 looks like a toy and I don't like it because of that"... I mean you call yourself a filmmaker but you care about what you camera looks like I mean seriously all you should care about is how the freakin FILM I will say again for effect FILM looks like! and The HV20 produces some serious rvialing prosumer stuff!.

Also the neat thing about an HV20 is its so freakin accsessible, Mine looks as professinal as any prosumer camera, with a matte box, 35 mm adaptor, rail system, monitor, follow focus, Boom Mic etc but I didn't buy it to make the camera look proffesinal it bought it to make my FILMS look proffesinal

for 1500 you could get a HV20, A DIY 35MM Adaptor, A good lense, Rails, Matte Box and maybe a follow focus depending on supplier. Which will pretty much rival any prosumer in terms of filmmaking abillity

but there is no convincing you so i don't know why I bother trying to help


Also can I just say you pointing out how the camera has a MSRP of $699 well that was in 2004, in the tecnological world 4 years is a hugh so I wouldn't of bought it and got a AHD becuase it is obviously going to destroy it interms of video quailty.

[CindyLynn]

No. The HV20 is still a (http://search.ebay.com/canon-hv-20_W0QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ34QQsbrsrtZdQQssPage NameZWLRS) lot (http://search.ebay.com/canon-hv-20_W0QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ34QQsbrsrtZdQQssPage NameZWLRS) of money. (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-HV20-HV-20-1080i-MiniDV-HD-24P-HI-DEF-CAMCORDER_W0QQitemZ130241020801QQihZ003QQcategoryZ 11724QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
If you found me one from $500-600 from a respectable seller, I'd buy.

[bobaandy1]

The HV20 produces some serious rvialing prosumer stuff!.
but there is no convincing you so i don't know why I bother trying to help


Have you ever used a prosumer camera?

And CandyLynn, filmmaking is a world where a roll of tape costs nearly $20 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/353363-REG/Permacel__Pro_Gaffer_Tape_2.html). If your not willing to spend $900 for something very crucial to a production, you had best be prepared for a very short dabble in movie making, or a very consumer one. It is not beyond ANYONE to save up enough for an HV20. You just have to be patient enough to save up.

[Ladri.]

No. The HV20 is still a (http://search.ebay.com/canon-hv-20_W0QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ34QQsbrsrtZdQQssPage NameZWLRS) lot (http://search.ebay.com/canon-hv-20_W0QQfromZR10QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ34QQsbrsrtZdQQssPage NameZWLRS) of money. (http://cgi.ebay.com/CANON-HV20-HV-20-1080i-MiniDV-HD-24P-HI-DEF-CAMCORDER_W0QQitemZ130241020801QQihZ003QQcategoryZ 11724QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
If you found me one from $500-600 from a respectable seller, I'd buy.

An extra $100 is completely worth the camera though.

[elscottomagnifico]

If you needed a good cam now and couldn't save the $100 or so (or didn't have time) there are always the recertified models. It's always nice (for confidence in your cam, if anything else) to buy perfectly new, but on a budget, used or recertified will do just as well.

No, recertified doesn't mean broken and then pieced together to work long enough for you to fall out of warranty. They are cams that were either returned, had a packaging defect (or packaging was messed up in transit - then returned), visual defects (outer body has a nick or a spot - not the lens or anything regarding image aquisition) and worse case scenario they are cams that were sent back on warranty. So the cam could have had some issue on warranty, but the cam is fixed, checked and tested to make sure that it works (they won't just send you a box of parts or an empty/broken shell). I'd just make sure there was a warranty for you (just to be safe - something can always go wrong).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16830120277

Do I get a cookie?

[CindyLynn]

Oh you do. You do do do do do. Cookies for you.xD
I've got alot of stuff from newegg [i build my computers with there gear] and do believe I'm going to be buying this from them. Thanks a lot for your help!

Oh, don't worry about referbs or used, I'm quiet sure that NewEgg wouldent sell anything bad.

And....
I'm fully aware how much film and DV tapes cost. I have operated many cameras, but thanks.

[EnipProductions]

Have you ever used a prosumer camera?

And CandyLynn, filmmaking is a world where a roll of tape costs nearly $20 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/353363-REG/Permacel__Pro_Gaffer_Tape_2.html). If your not willing to spend $900 for something very crucial to a production, you had best be prepared for a very short dabble in movie making, or a very consumer one. It is not beyond ANYONE to save up enough for an HV20. You just have to be patient enough to save up.

Yes I have used a prosumer cams. I have used XL2, A1 and I have even operated a RED ONE for a few minutes :). But seriously the HV20 can rival them (not the RED) IF you know how to use it to its full potential ;)

[elscottomagnifico]

Oh you do. You do do do do do. Cookies for you.xD
I've got alot of stuff from newegg [i build my computers with there gear] and do believe I'm going to be buying this from them. Thanks a lot for your help!

Oh, don't worry about referbs or used, I'm quiet sure that NewEgg wouldent sell anything bad.

And....
I'm fully aware how much film and DV tapes cost. I have operated many cameras, but thanks.
Glad I could help, but what kind of cookie are we talking here?

I fully trust Newegg, it's just that I'd want to make sure that you get some sort of warranty with it. There is always something that can go wrong - And if it will, it will happen exactly when you don't want it to. You could also look into buying mini-dv tapes in some sort of bulk. You could get them for around $2.50-ish each that way.

Good Luck and most of all, have fun.