Most of you!!

[PB~productions]

I know alot of you would even if its against the rules to download a keygen and software and get it all for free. and still people whine about it i know its against the law and i will not do it but i almost did to get the adobe master collection cs4, it cost 2,500$ would you rather that or.. get it for free!?

[Nonsensical studios]

Or, get a student discount

[Black Dawn Productions]

Or, get a student discount
Yes but even a student discount just chips at the price.

I feel your pain PB.

[WesScog]

Yea, but you've got to think about it as an investment man, that money isn't just going into the crapper, it's going towards making more money.

I worked with a couple of guys this past weekend, they invested almost 6 Months worth of their salary towards equipment and supplies so they could start their own indie cinematography company.

All together they put down almost 40,000 dollars for all of their stuff, lenses, tripods, lighting, silks, cameras, computers, software, etc.

And now they do jobs that net them anywhere from 1,000 to 10,000 every weekend because they do consistently good work and word has spread about them.

In less than a year they are going to not only finish paying off all of their equipment, but be making a consistent profit that they can put towards their own projects.

[Black Dawn Productions]

Yea, but you've got to think about it as an investment man, that money isn't just going into the crapper, it's going towards making more money.

I worked with a couple of guys this past weekend, they invested almost 6 Months worth of their salary towards equipment and supplies so they could start their own indie cinematography company.

All together they put down almost 40,000 dollars for all of their stuff, lenses, tripods, lighting, silks, cameras, computers, software, etc.

And now they do jobs that net them anywhere from 1,000 to 10,000 every weekend because they do consistently good work and word has spread about them.

In less than a year they are going to not only finish paying off all of their equipment, but be making a consistent profit that they can put towards their own projects.

This is true, but at the age of sixteen and our country going down the crapper it's hard to gather up that $2,500 or w.e. you need. But I understand what you mean. I just have trouble coming up with the money.

[WesScog]

That's why you save up. And our country isn't going down the "crapper". The economy isn't as strong as it could be, but that doesn't mean that work isn't there.

Think TV has shut down just because GM isn't selling enough cars? Nope.

Also, learn to diversify, these guys just recently went and shot a bunch of stuff in Ireland (whose economy has been doing very well for the last decade). You've got to learn to start working in the GLOBAL ECONOMY rather than just the AMERICAN ECONOMY. Globalized production is the future, that's where the real money is.

The economy is rarely terrible EVERYWHERE, so if jobs are hard to find in America, start out-sourcing your services. If you have a good portfolio of work, and the equipment people want stuff to be shot with, you've got it made, and you WILL get consistent work.

If you start saving up now, and filming what you can with consumer grade equipment, by the time you have the money for something like the HVX or another camera that can be used for professional purposes, you'll have tons of experience shooting stuff, and maybe a bunch of good stuff in your portfolio already.

[766films]

That's why you save up. And our country isn't going down the "crapper". The economy isn't as strong as it could be, but that doesn't mean that work isn't there.

Think TV has shut down just because GM isn't selling enough cars? Nope.

Also, learn to diversify, these guys just recently went and shot a bunch of stuff in Ireland (whose economy has been doing very well for the last decade). You've got to learn to start working in the GLOBAL ECONOMY rather than just the AMERICAN ECONOMY. Globalized production is the future, that's where the real money is.

The economy is rarely terrible EVERYWHERE, so if jobs are hard to find in America, start out-sourcing your services. If you have a good portfolio of work, and the equipment people want stuff to be shot with, you've got it made, and you WILL get consistent work.

If you start saving up now, and filming what you can with consumer grade equipment, by the time you have the money for something like the HVX or another camera that can be used for professional purposes, you'll have tons of experience shooting stuff, and maybe a bunch of good stuff in your portfolio already.

You got a point there

[Brainstrained]

I pirated it.

I pirate everything.

In the past 2.5 months I've downloaded 340 GB of awesome stuff that would have cost me tens of thousands of dollars if I had payed for it.

I'm not saying it isn't stealing.

I'm just saying, fuck it.

It's easy. I don't care if people steal my movies, and I hope someday I will make one worth stealing.

[thtoneguy94]

Well its a bit hard to go all the way to Ireland and shoot a video when in high school. Just a bit.

But I see where you're going Wes and I agree with you.

[PB~productions]

im so close to.... but ill try not to, i know a lot of people who pirate everything! but ill put my money into software then just make some movies with my handycam, and edit them really good

[PB~productions]

oh and i live in canada and its 2,500US and im almost 16, in like 5 months

[PB~productions]

well i went and got the trial of cs4.... not as good as the full program but is there any good tutorials?

[Nonsensical studios]

hate to sound like a Broken Record, But:

Or, get a student discount

$800.

[CakedUp]

No need to lie, we know you got the full version. Even Adobe has said they do not care, they know most students can not afford the software.

Anyways...tutorials for what? Need to be more specific but check out creativecow.net.

[PB~productions]

no i dont have the full version i swear my step dad normally deletes stuff like that anyways if he knows i didnt pay for it.

[CakedUp]

lmao...

[PB~productions]

it sucks when i try to watch movies online he takes the computer away for a day =[

[WesScog]

Well its a bit hard to go all the way to Ireland and shoot a video when in high school. Just a bit.

But I see where you're going Wes and I agree with you.

If you're in demand the company you're working for will cover your travel fees.

I'm not saying that RIGHT NOW you're going to start being a jetsetter and getting jobs all over the world, i'm simply saying that America isn't the only place where media production happens.

And even now, even though it might be unrealistic for you to expect to do so, you need to start preparing for it.

That means consistently saving money, when I worked at a crummy fast food place years ago, I put 90% of my income into a savings account, it's been enough for me to do quite a lot of things with it since then, from just a year and a half of minimum wage work a few years ago.

To many people who say they don't have the money, will also consistently SPEND money, they'll go to the movies with friends, go out to eat, buy video games and new movies.

I'm not saying to STOP doing this stuff all together, but you're going to have to start doing it less if you really want to get some professional level equipment.

You're going to have to save, and you're going to have to save for a long time.

Think about it, you're old enough to get a job at McDonalds. I don't know about your states miminum wage but lets just assume it's the federal minimum.

So lets say you work on average 30 hours a week at 5.15 an hour. That's 154 dollars a week, or over 6,000 a year if you work for most of the year.

That is more than enough money to get a steadicam, a XHA1 (or a Canon HV30 and a 35mm Adapter), and some lights.

That's all you really need to start out. Work for two years, saving the majority of your income, that's enough to get a good Mac editing rig, the Adobe editing suite, and an even better camera like the HVX.

That means that if you start saving NOW, by the time you're 18 and graduated from High School, you'll already have a complete professional production and editing studio, without even asking your parents for help.

That means that if you decide to go to college for media or film studies that you'll have 2 years of experience with professional equipment under your belt, AND all the equipment necessary to do almost anything you want.

Meaning you'll be able to shoot a far more effective reel for your portfolio while you're in college compared to someone who is a relative novice.

By the time you've graduated you'll have a great reel, all the equipment and experience you need, plus a bunch of people who share your interest and who are willing to collaborate with you. (Especially since you'll be the one with the great equipment).

So you have experience, a portfolio, equipment, and a network of contacts that you'll be able to rely on for help.

All because you made wise financial decisions NOW instead of complaining that you're to young to be a cinematographer.

[PB~productions]

thats the biggest post ive seen from you wes

[WesScog]

Then you never read the Obama vs. McCain thread.

[PB~productions]

nope

[Vaughn Whynot]

man i guess i was lucky for getting vegas for only 80 bucks and a skateboard

[thtoneguy94]

If you're in demand the company you're working for will cover your travel fees.

I'm not saying that RIGHT NOW you're going to start being a jetsetter and getting jobs all over the world, i'm simply saying that America isn't the only place where media production happens.

And even now, even though it might be unrealistic for you to expect to do so, you need to start preparing for it.

That means consistently saving money, when I worked at a crummy fast food place years ago, I put 90% of my income into a savings account, it's been enough for me to do quite a lot of things with it since then, from just a year and a half of minimum wage work a few years ago.

To many people who say they don't have the money, will also consistently SPEND money, they'll go to the movies with friends, go out to eat, buy video games and new movies.

I'm not saying to STOP doing this stuff all together, but you're going to have to start doing it less if you really want to get some professional level equipment.

You're going to have to save, and you're going to have to save for a long time.

Think about it, you're old enough to get a job at McDonalds. I don't know about your states miminum wage but lets just assume it's the federal minimum.

So lets say you work on average 30 hours a week at 5.15 an hour. That's 154 dollars a week, or over 6,000 a year if you work for most of the year.

That is more than enough money to get a steadicam, a XHA1 (or a Canon HV30 and a 35mm Adapter), and some lights.

That's all you really need to start out. Work for two years, saving the majority of your income, that's enough to get a good Mac editing rig, the Adobe editing suite, and an even better camera like the HVX.

That means that if you start saving NOW, by the time you're 18 and graduated from High School, you'll already have a complete professional production and editing studio, without even asking your parents for help.

That means that if you decide to go to college for media or film studies that you'll have 2 years of experience with professional equipment under your belt, AND all the equipment necessary to do almost anything you want.

Meaning you'll be able to shoot a far more effective reel for your portfolio while you're in college compared to someone who is a relative novice.

By the time you've graduated you'll have a great reel, all the equipment and experience you need, plus a bunch of people who share your interest and who are willing to collaborate with you. (Especially since you'll be the one with the great equipment).

So you have experience, a portfolio, equipment, and a network of contacts that you'll be able to rely on for help.

All because you made wise financial decisions NOW instead of complaining that you're to young to be a cinematographer.

Well can I spend the money while I get it? Lets say I work for a couple of months then get an HVX. Then save for another couple of months and get the adobe production suite? Because two years is a long time. I see what you mean Wes and in my state the minimum wage is 7.25. I have another six months before I can get a job but if I get a work permit I can get one now.

[WesScog]

Get a work permit now. And sure, get equipment as you can afford it, get the camera first and start learning how to work it, and just edit with WMM (or whatever you've got) until you can afford the editing suite.

I'm not saying buy everything all at once, but if you save for 2 years, that's more than enough to get all the equipment necessary to do professional cinematography work.

[Scott]

Piracy kicks ass!

[PB~productions]

Piracy kicks ass!

haha until you get caught

[Scott]

haha until you get caught

Can't catch all the pirates in the world.

[poolboyfilms]

I get piraed software mailed from the philippines...someday i will buy the real thing when i have more money.

[professor devlin]

This is true, but at the age of sixteen and our country going down the crapper it's hard to gather up that $2,500 or w.e. you need. But I understand what you mean. I just have trouble coming up with the money.

Well then perhaps film isn't something for you to be doing right now. Wait until you have the ability to spend the money and then write it off as a business expense.

I see plenty of people complaining about the costs of creating a film company. I'm in that same boat, as I'm getting my company off the ground, and it's taken me 8 years to get to where I can afford pro equipment.

I've used my primary job to fund my dreams, and if you got a job at McDonalds or wherever, you could generate $2500.00 in about 3 months if you didn't have other bills to pay.

[drweir]

Remember that pirate copies and keygens often equal viruses and other nasty PC cooties.

[Magical Monkey]

I know alot of you would even if its against the rules to download a keygen and software and get it all for free. and still people whine about it i know its against the law and i will not do it but i almost did to get the adobe master collection cs4, it cost 2,500$ would you rather that or.. get it for free!?
i never download keygens and the like.

[Flamekebab]

haha until you get caughtBy who?

I use free software, so it's not a particular concern of mine, but I honestly wonder who checks?

[Brainstrained]

Well then perhaps film isn't something for you to be doing right now. Wait until you have the ability to spend the money and then write it off as a business expense.

I see plenty of people complaining about the costs of creating a film company. I'm in that same boat, as I'm getting my company off the ground, and it's taken me 8 years to get to where I can afford pro equipment.

I've used my primary job to fund my dreams, and if you got a job at McDonalds or wherever, you could generate $2500.00 in about 3 months if you didn't have other bills to pay.

I love your indie spirit.

[thtoneguy94]

Wes...I'm getting a work permit application today from school. You're right. But hopefully I can still get a job while the economy is doing so poorly right now.

[professor devlin]

I love your indie spirit.

Thanks.

Being one of the older guys on this forum, I can completely understand how easy it is to be frustrated by the costs of things. I'm still trying to buy a pro grade camera. I've built most of my equipment from the ground up, not to mention paid for all the software I've needed to get things rolling along.

I have a decent enough camera now, but there's always something better out there that would give me a better visual quality that I want.

I don't want to be Lucasfilm, but I'd like to be able to have something that when played in a theater won't look like a 10 year old shot it with their parent's camera.

I've been working as an artist and illustrator for about 17 years, and it's not always been fun, or profitable. In fact, there have been plenty of days where Ramen Noodles tasted as good as steak.

With that said, I know what my dream is, and it is attainable.

[greyroompictures]

Piracy kicks ass!

What people don't seem to understand is that piracy kicks our asses. We all work in the creation of software...

Computer software piracy means inflated prices that we have to pay for editing software etc. Who's ass is kicked ? OURS!

DVD software piracy means that big studios need to make top dollar on the movies they invest in - so those indy ideas that might be a little left field get dropped in favour of huge corporate piles of lowest common denominator pap. Who's ass is kicked ? OURS!

Piracy in general means that people lose respect for the creative industry as something that delivers things of value. It also devalues the work that we all put into making our stuff... whether it's big or small... Who's ass is kicked ? OURS!

So, yeah! you're spot on that piracy kicks ass... Just a shame that it's a form of stealing that directly affects each one of us who claims to be a creative on this forum.
It would be nice to live in a world where the ****ing grind I put in to my stuff was respected by my family, my friends and the people I meet on the street... but because it's just a form of 'software', that few deem as being valuable, I'm made out to be a mug and my efforts are thought of as a 'bit of fun'.

I've got 'filmmaker' on my kids birth certificate and I had to argue that it was more than a hobby - because people don't see value in what we do.

Please value the creative industries and pay for what you see, hear and download - whether that's with money (if asked for) or respect (if it's given to you as a gift for free).

Man... sorry... I'm ranting! :supermad:

[glmclainmovies]

Piracy kicks ass!
http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l436/elc1247/1206087344154.jpg

[greyroompictures]

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l436/elc1247/1206087344154.jpg

I hope you have the necessary rights to display that image... *joking*

[KingNikan]

TBH as long as you dont Make Money off it and just use it for learining it would be ok but if you make money you should buy it

I bought the Master Collection and 3DS Max because i started to make money for local peopel

[Scott]

http://i330.photobucket.com/albums/l436/elc1247/1206087344154.jpg

http://www.sternplanet.com/boards/images/gifs/tumbleweed.gif

[stikyfingas]

I just bought CS4 master for $500 (CS4 production was $315) through my work because it's a university so I know you can get it cheaper than what they list for 'educational' students were paying the same thing as I did.

My advice if you're not one already save and find a college student! Keygens aren't really worth it in the end because you never get updates so you just end up with buggy software.

[instantkult]

So what if you can't afford $2500 for Adobe CS4? That's no reason to steal it.

You can roll your own production packagefor much less, and while it may not all be "professional level" software, it'll be more than you need to simply get the job done.

If you're like me, the main things you need are an NLE, a compositor, image manipultion, and an audio editor.

For my NLE, I use Vegas Pro 8. It lists for about $550 USD, but I found my copy online at B&H for $130 USD (about $160 CAD). It also has pretty good compositing capabilites, but is lacking a few of After Effects' features, such as particle generation.

To make up for some of the features Vegas lacks, I'm getting back into using Blender. While it's primarily known for its 3D modeling and rendering capabilities, Blender also has a powerful node based compositor and some video editing capability, as well. Sure the workflow can be a bit wonky and the learning curve is steep, but the software itself is free, and there's plenty of info availble online as to how to make the most of its features.

Speaking of free software, the GIMP and Inkscape can handle pretty much any 2D image manipultion that you might possibly need. The GIMP's recent implementation of GEGL menas that it can now handle 32-bit color, although you do have to manully turn it on in the "Color" menu.

Also availbe for free is Audacity, a decptively simple yet powerful audio editor. While Vegas has great audio capabilities (in its original incarnation it was an audio workstation), I've found Audacity very useful for cleanup and noise reduction.

So there you have it, a "creative suite" that handles all of the basic funtionality of the software in CS4 that I would actually see myself using for less than 1/10th of what CS4 would cost me. I'm not saying that it's necessarily the best option, but it's getting the job done for me while I save up.

[jammer]

it hard to use that much software, unless your selling which is wrong,but to download and see if you can use it or like it then buy it i dont see a problem, i wish i had been able to try out some software before i bought it.

I pirated it.

I pirate everything.

In the past 2.5 months I've downloaded 340 GB of awesome stuff that would have cost me tens of thousands of dollars if I had payed for it.

I'm not saying it isn't stealing.

I'm just saying, fuck it.

It's easy. I don't care if people steal my movies, and I hope someday I will make one worth stealing.