Trying To Purchase My 1st Camcorder

[TwistedCreator135]

So there comes a time in every girl's life when she needs to save up money to the get the camcorder that will one day help her in her dream of being in film... Reading that now I cannot believe the corniness of that previous statement. Anyhow, back to why I seek help. Guys and gals, I need to figure out what inexpensive and great camcorder I should buy. Recently, I've been kinda wanting the Flip Mino HD. It's cheap and looks decent from the sample videos I've seeand I think what the hell maybe I should get this for my first camcorder. Yet despite being among the top bestsellers and great reviews there are the bad reviews and such that make me apprehensive.

Now one must take into consideration that:
1) I'm in high school
2) Thus my job kinda sucks pay wise if I only work one day a week for *cough* $50 *cough*
3) The possible regret and anger I'll experience if I get screwed.

But luckily Christmas has passed and I've gained a decent amount of dough to help me in my savings. So what I'm really trying to say here is, what are your suggestions for a inexpensive, yet decent camcorder to try and make movies with??

[WesScog]

I am working on compiling a list of every consumer camera available for under 1,000 dollars. Since you want a cheaper camera, and since I have the first part of the list done, I thought this would help you decide.

Here are links to every camera, with reviews for each one, and their price. Under them are footage examples under various conditions that i've found, so you can see what kind of image it can produce under almost any kind of circumstance.

Hope this helps you with your decision.

But what amount of money are you talking about here? 200-ish? 300-ish? 400-ish? More?

Also, what were you thinking of doing with the camera? Like what kind of projects do you want to undertake?

GO-HD (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/499973-REG/Aiptek_GO_HD_GO_HD_High_Definition_SD.html) - Approx. $99:
http://www.vimeo.com/388093
http://www.vimeo.com/393771
http://www.vimeo.com/1576955
http://www.vimeo.com/809841
http://www.vimeo.com/768768

DXG-567V (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/555306-REG/DXG_DXG_567VP_DXG_567VP_32MB_HD_Flash.html) - Approx. $105:
http://www.vimeo.com/1360164
http://www.vimeo.com/1241266

A-HD (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/531716-REG/Aiptek_A_HD_A_HD_720P_High_Definition.html) - Approx $110:
http://www.vimeo.com/457837
http://www.vimeo.com/787909
http://www.vimeo.com/404996
http://www.vimeo.com/384801
http://www.vimeo.com/605935

SC-D382 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/541106-REG/Samsung_SC_D382_SC_D382_Mini_DV_Camcorder.html) - Approx. $135:
http://www.vimeo.com/2373287
http://www.vimeo.com/2226417

A-HD+ (http://www.amazon.com/Aiptek-1080P-Definition-Camcorder-Silver/dp/B0019BPTMI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1229041472&sr=1-1) - Approx. $135:
http://www.vimeo.com/1668524
http://www.vimeo.com/1668550
http://www.vimeo.com/2280583
http://www.vimeo.com/1460066
http://www.vimeo.com/1476015

Flip Mino (http://www.amazon.com/Flip-Video-Camcorder-Minutes-Black/dp/B0016BXRB6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229488219&sr=8-2) - Approx. $159:
http://www.vimeo.com/1413540
http://www.vimeo.com/1286452
http://www.vimeo.com/2183767
http://www.vimeo.com/1913309
http://www.vimeo.com/1531283

DXG-595V (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/555313-REG/DXG_DXG_595V_DXG_595V_32MB_Flash_Memory.html) - Approx. $189:
http://www.vimeo.com/1523724
http://www.vimeo.com/1495015
http://www.vimeo.com/1495076
http://www.vimeo.com/1495104
http://www.vimeo.com/1500706
http://www.vimeo.com/2492318
http://www.vimeo.com/2221162

D850 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/537778-REG/JVC_GR_D850_GR_D850_MiniDV_Camcorder_.html) - Approx. $199:
http://www.vimeo.com/1979235
http://www.vimeo.com/1993161
http://www.vimeo.com/2559684

Flip Mino HD (http://www.amazon.com/Flip-Video-MinoHD-Camcorder-Minutes/dp/B001HSOFI2/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229488219&sr=8-1) - Approx. $209:
http://www.vimeo.com/2479222 (Mino versus HV20)
http://www.vimeo.com/2546632
http://www.vimeo.com/2539210
http://www.vimeo.com/2478811
http://www.vimeo.com/2478957
http://www.vimeo.com/2458855

HC52 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/537998-REG/Sony_DCR_HC52_DCR_HC52_MiniDV_Camcorder.html) - Approx. $219:
http://www.vimeo.com/2636995
http://www.vimeo.com/2033852
http://www.vimeo.com/2480305
http://www.vimeo.com/2629257

SC-MX20 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/572505-REG/Samsung_SC_MX20_BLK_SC_MX20_Flash_Memory_Camcorder .html) - Approx. $219:
http://www.vimeo.com/2571379
http://www.vimeo.com/2192433
http://www.vimeo.com/2203780
http://www.vimeo.com/2630592
http://www.vimeo.com/2575989
http://www.vimeo.com/2404826
http://www.vimeo.com/2404935

ZR-900 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/539205-REG/Canon_2487B001_ZR_900_MiniDV_Camcorder.html) - Approx. $219:
http://www.vimeo.com/2463797
http://www.vimeo.com/2614616

Aiptek Action HD GVS (http://www.amazon.com/Aiptek-Action-HD-GVS-Definition/dp/B001GXR03U) - $235:
http://www.vimeo.com/2578617
http://www.vimeo.com/2540383
http://www.vimeo.com/2481400
http://www.vimeo.com/2510858
http://www.vimeo.com/2591103
http://www.vimeo.com/2591408

ZR-930 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/539206-REG/Canon_2486B001_ZR_930_MiniDV_Camcorder.html) - Approx. $239:
http://www.vimeo.com/1679962
http://www.vimeo.com/2138398
http://www.vimeo.com/1853891
http://www.vimeo.com/2610124

SDR-S7 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/536044-REG/Panasonic_SDR_S7K_SDR_S7_SD_Camcorder_Black_.html) - Approx. $244:
http://www.vimeo.com/1297288
http://www.vimeo.com/1452193
http://www.vimeo.com/1263782
http://www.vimeo.com/1346619

Sanyo Xacti HD-700 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/528987-REG/Sanyo_VPC_HD700BR_Xacti_HD_700BR_High_Definition.h tml) - Approx. $289:
http://www.vimeo.com/424532
http://www.vimeo.com/1000914
http://www.vimeo.com/846284
http://www.vimeo.com/1713965
http://www.vimeo.com/349056
http://www.vimeo.com/1547457
http://www.vimeo.com/424556

Sony HDR-UX5 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/475462-REG/Sony_HDRUX5_HDR_UX5_AVC_HD_DVD.html) - Approx. $364:
http://www.vimeo.com/2367664
http://www.vimeo.com/2574392
http://www.vimeo.com/2641436
http://www.vimeo.com/973340
http://www.vimeo.com/681084
http://www.vimeo.com/1439682

PV-GS320 (http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-PV-GS320-Camcorder-Optical-Stabilized/dp/B000M4LXIW/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1229492863&sr=8-1) - Approx. $449 (although that seems to be used, it's listed as $699 on Amazon) All the samples are upressed to HD so when I drop the HV20 examples below it'll be closer to one another:
http://www.vimeo.com/2535722
http://www.vimeo.com/2500244
http://www.vimeo.com/2327474
http://www.vimeo.com/2034574
http://www.vimeo.com/1733134 - With 35mm Adapter, and Color-Corrected in post with Magic Bullet.

HG10 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/516695-REG/Canon_2183B001_VIXIA_HG10_HD_AVCHD.html) - Approx. $499:
http://www.vimeo.com/1379599
http://www.vimeo.com/1348220
http://www.vimeo.com/699937
http://www.vimeo.com/1133479
http://www.vimeo.com/776063
http://www.vimeo.com/444619
http://www.vimeo.com/692125 (Cinemode + 35mm + Color Correction)
http://www.vimeo.com/732883

SD9 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/575447-REG/Panasonic_HDC_SD9_8GB_HDC_SD9_8GB_SDHC_Flash_Memor y.html) - Approx. $529:
http://www.vimeo.com/703483
http://www.vimeo.com/703509
http://www.vimeo.com/1655454
http://www.vimeo.com/2439946
http://www.vimeo.com/1425344

HD10 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/572457-REG/JVC_GZ_HD10US_GZ_HD10_Everio_High_Definition.html) - Approx. $529:
http://www.vimeo.com/2266790
http://www.vimeo.com/2293658
http://www.vimeo.com/2605781
http://www.vimeo.com/2219770

SR10 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/537983-REG/Sony_HDR_SR10_HDR_SR10_40GB_Hybrid_HDD_Memory.html ) - Approx. $534:
http://www.vimeo.com/1443223
http://www.vimeo.com/2416271
http://www.vimeo.com/1684933
http://www.vimeo.com/2559233
http://www.vimeo.com/2429408

HV30 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/539289-REG/Canon_2680B001_VIXIA_HV30_HDV_Camcorder.html) - Approx. $539:
http://www.vimeo.com/1154024 (35mm Adapter)
http://www.vimeo.com/895240
http://www.vimeo.com/930740
http://www.vimeo.com/1454421
http://www.vimeo.com/1464926
http://www.vimeo.com/1434906 (Color Correction)
http://www.vimeo.com/1421891

And here is a video that I think just looks truly amazing, it was shot with the HV20, but the HV30 and 20 are identical except the HV30 is black, and has a 30P mode, so you can still compare them:
http://www.vimeo.com/1737450

HF100 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/539291-REG/Canon_2708B001_VIXIA_HF_100_AVCHD_Flash.html) - Approx. $549:
http://www.vimeo.com/1585537
http://www.vimeo.com/2436158
http://www.vimeo.com/1818473
http://www.vimeo.com/923820
http://www.vimeo.com/1159287
http://www.vimeo.com/2380634 (With Color Correction)
http://www.vimeo.com/971689
http://www.vimeo.com/942017
http://www.vimeo.com/1047947

HG20 - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/576009-REG/Canon_3085B001_VIXIA_HG20_AVCHD_Hard.html)Approx. $549
http://www.vimeo.com/2162150
http://www.vimeo.com/2506630
http://www.vimeo.com/2107025
http://www.vimeo.com/1958837
http://www.vimeo.com/1976487
http://www.vimeo.com/1938339
http://www.vimeo.com/2108282
http://www.vimeo.com/2381845

[TwistedCreator135]

WHOA! thanks! XD I'm definitely going to be checking each one of the links with great scrutiny.

But what amount of money are you talking about here? 200-ish? 300-ish? 400-ish? More?

Also, what were you thinking of doing with the camera? Like what kind of projects do you want to undertake?In all honesty, until I get a better pay, I'm gonna try not to go over $400 for a camcorder. I'm close to having over $300 right now in what I've been saving up.

Project-wise I hope to experiment with editing and visual effects on anything I might concoct.

[speekerphone]

[quote=WesScog;260071]

And here is a video that I think just looks truly amazing, it was shot with the HV20, but the HV30 and 20 are identical except the HV30 is black, and has a 30P mode, so you can still compare them:
http://www.vimeo.com/1737450

[quote/]



Why is that amazing?

[Vaughn Whynot]

wes i am able to do one for a sony handycam dcrhc52
just let me know what you want (exporting settings) and stuff

[WesScog]

Why is that amazing?

The quality of the image is superb.

[WesScog]

wes i am able to do one for a sony handycam dcrhc52
just let me know what you want (exporting settings) and stuff

That'd be awesome, just the best quality you can get, I want to see how well it can do.

[Vaughn Whynot]

That'd be awesome, just the best quality you can get, I want to see how well it can do.
lol right on
i going out tomorrow so i get some footage
i still figuring out sony vegas
do you know what the best export setting in it is?

[TwistedCreator135]

The quality of the image is superb.

It is. I was shocked when I saw it. I wasn't expecting that from a non-professional camcorder. Those Canons were really getting my attention and I think I might consider going over budget for one.

[WesScog]

lol right on
i going out tomorrow so i get some footage
i still figuring out sony vegas
do you know what the best export setting in it is?

If you're going to put it up on Vimeo, personally, i've always been a big fan of WMV, put it on the highest quality settings, and i've always been really happy with the results, and the render time is exceptional on my computer.

But someon else whose used Vimeo a lot might be able to tell me what settings they've had the best experience with.

[WesScog]

It is. I was shocked when I saw it. I wasn't expecting that from a non-professional camcorder. Those Canons were really getting my attention and I think I might consider going over budget for one.


To me, it looks almost indistinguishable from some projects i've shot on 16mm.

The latitude and color rendition is just really nice in that video, and blowing it up all the way to full screen and watching it, and stopping it frame by frame, there are some frames from this video that look like it could have been taken from a DSLR photo.

[WesScog]

http://www.vimeo.com/1295989

Here is another piece using the HV20 by the same cinematographer, it's amazing what image quality you can squeeze out of it.

[TwistedCreator135]

To me, it looks almost indistinguishable from some projects i've shot on 16mm.

The latitude and color rendition is just really nice in that video, and blowing it up all the way to full screen and watching it, and stopping it frame by frame, there are some frames from this video that look like it could have been taken from a DSLR photo.


Wow, I think that's why I was thinking, "This can't be a normal camcorder. This has to be something a little more than that hand held."

Yes, visually, that was certainly amazing, but there would be the help of whatever editing program they used that helped create that look, wouldn't you think so? On the matter of DSLR, so they probably just added to the video frames to give the video that extra oomph.

[Fluppeteer]

http://www.vimeo.com/1295989

Here is another piece using the HV20 by the same cinematographer, it's amazing what image quality you can squeeze out of it.
Is the HV20 cheaper than HV30?

[stikyfingas]

lol right on
i going out tomorrow so i get some footage
i still figuring out sony vegas
do you know what the best export setting in it is?

In Vegas I always export using these settings for vimeo
http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/images/mainconcept.png

[WesScog]

Is the HV20 cheaper than HV30?

No, once something is replaced, it seems that it's price actually goes up.

The HV30 is currently cheaper, with additional features.

But i'm sure you might be able to find a used HV20 for cheaper.

[WesScog]

Wow, I think that's why I was thinking, "This can't be a normal camcorder. This has to be something a little more than that hand held."

Yes, visually, that was certainly amazing, but there would be the help of whatever editing program they used that helped create that look, wouldn't you think so? On the matter of DSLR, so they probably just added to the video frames to give the video that extra oomph.

Not really, I mean if you have a crummy source image, no amount of wizardry will make it better.

They did slight color grading, and I believe put a slight Gaussian filter on it, but other than that, it's not really tampered with.

And they can't really "add' anything to it.

[TwistedCreator135]

Not really, I mean if you have a crummy source image, no amount of wizardry will make it better.

They did slight color grading, and I believe put a slight Gaussian filter on it, but other than that, it's not really tampered with.

And they can't really "add' anything to it.

True.

Okay, just wondering about that.

yeah, that last sentence I wrote should have a question mark... anyhow, didn't think they could have.

[KMProductions]

Hi, For questions about cameras you can always post in the Camera Guide (http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=7166) I created. It has information about a lot of cameras.

[NerdWithNoLife]

For a first camera I advise: if you're not going big, go OK & cheap. I wouldn't get something really lousy like a DVD camcorder, but wouldn't aim for HD. When I got out of high school I got an average DV camcorder, which I used for 8 years. Now I got the HV30 because the price is now so affordable.

There's no reason you can't get experience with a starter camera, then upgrade later. In the same way, if you went all out into the multiple thousands of dollar range on a computer and editing software - by the time you're comfortable enough to delve into a serious project... all that stuff will be outdated! In other words, focus on getting better now, not getting more stuff. And keep in mind some of those great HV30 videos use a 35mm adapter, which with a lense will set you back another $300 - $+1,000.

[TwistedCreator135]

Hi, For questions about cameras you can always post in the Camera Guide (http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=7166) I created. It has information about a lot of cameras.

yes, I did see that guide it was very helpful also ^^.

For a first camera I advise: if you're not going big, go OK & cheap. I wouldn't get something really lousy like a DVD camcorder, but wouldn't aim for HD. When I got out of high school I got an average DV camcorder, which I used for 8 years. Now I got the HV30 because the price is now so affordable.

There's no reason you can't get experience with a starter camera, then upgrade later. In the same way, if you went all out into the multiple thousands of dollar range on a computer and editing software - by the time you're comfortable enough to delve into a serious project... all that stuff will be outdated! In other words, focus on getting better now, not getting more stuff. And keep in mind some of those great HV30 videos use a 35mm adapter, which with a lense will set you back another $300 - $+1,000.

In the beginning when I was thinking of what I should get, I knew I should try go cheap and decent. So I looked at the Flip Mino and such. I was getting even more used to the idea of just going with that when I saw that it had an editing program with it.

XD I really have no intentions of going higher than $300 or into the thousands of dollars even though I said earlier I'd go as high as $400. But I keep thinking and thinking about it. I really believe I'm just going to go with my first idea and get the Flip. Like you said, there's no reason I can't get experience from a starter camera. And when the time comes I'll upgrade. So thank you for the further advice. ^-^