Science Project Help. Making a Glider.

[Nonsensical studios]

I may have bit off more than I can chew on this one.

Here it goes:

My teacher gave the class a completely open ended science project. I of course, love to build things. I asked if my problem would be "Can I make a glider that can carry a 500ml water bottle 10m in a straight line out of Household materials?"

That was easier said then done.

Upon doing the project, I realized making a kind of heavy glider would be hard. My first design flopped, and I am now into my second.

Does anyone have any experience with Gliders, I mean I have read up on them a lot over the past few days, but if you have any tips for generating lift it would be much appreciated.

Or should I just admit defeat?

[punkandska66]

Put giant fans on the bottom side of the wings?

[Nonsensical studios]

Put giant fans on the bottom side of the wings?

No. Its that sort of imaginative thinking that got me into this mess.

[pancakeparty]

how high off the ground will you be releasing the glider?

[Skycarl]

I've built experimental aircraft,,, maybe I can help. What do you want to know?
And like pancake asked,, how are you launching?

[Nonsensical studios]

I am throwing it.

I want to know how I can generate more lift, how long should the wingspan be, or any other rules of thumb. Even if a project like this is feasible.

[Skycarl]

Probably the best way to help would be to do a drawing with
the explanation on it. Way too much info to put on here.
If you want, I will draw you up something that may work.

[Nonsensical studios]

Under normal circumstances, I would accept (It is a very gracious offer), but I feel this is something I must do myself.

I just need some tips on wing design, homemade airfoils, rules of thumb etc.

[Citrus]

Does the water bottle have to filled at all?
Can you fasten the bottle to the plane?

[Nonsensical studios]

Yes, full to the top.

Yes.

[Indymoguler]

that can carrya water bottle??? wow that is wishful thinking. lol

[Nonsensical studios]

I figured if the mythbusters could make a Concrete Glider, I could make a heavy glider too.

[Citrus]

I don't know much about aerodynamics and all that jazz at all but, if you got some clothes hangars and made a webbing out of wax paper then taped the water to the top, could that work?

[Skycarl]

Okay,, you need a dihedral on the wings of at least 15 degrees
so it will stay stable. Use a center post on the top of the wing
and attach wires to several areas of the wing instead of struts.
Don't make skinny wings. use a thick wing, perhaps 6 feet long by at least a foot. Make sure your balance point is about one
third from the leading edge of the wing, so if you were to pick it
up at the ends of the wings, it will balance there. Then you want to add a touch of weight forward so it is nose heavy.
This downward force will give you your energy for lift.
Make the fuselage as simple as possible. Perhaps a top and
lower longeron and attach everything on the top one. Center
your load in between these under the wing keeping the balance
slightly forward like I mentioned. Keep your horizontal and vertical
stabilizers flat with a slight upward elevator on the horizontal
stab. As the nose pulls the plane down, the elevator will try
to keep the nose moving up.
Hope some of this helps.

[WesScog]

Totally possibly... but before I start rattling off design criteria, define "Household Materials".

Because "Household Materials" for me means a closet full of balsa wood, PVC pipe, plastic sheets, and massive chunks of foam.

[pancakeparty]

I am throwing it.

I want to know how I can generate more lift, how long should the wingspan be, or any other rules of thumb. Even if a project like this is feasible.

I think the first thing you need to consider before you start to build anything is the inconsistency of physically throwing the glider which will result in inaccurate data. You should find a way to launch it without having to throw it. That would probably be a project on its own though. If I were you I'd consider changing the project around a little to more of a free fall kind of project rather than a projectile one. but whatever you decide I'll try to help out as much as I can. I love physics!

[Nonsensical studios]

Okay,, you need a dihedral on the wings of at least 15 degrees
so it will stay stable. Use a center post on the top of the wing
and attach wires to several areas of the wing instead of struts.
Don't make skinny wings. use a thick wing, perhaps 6 feet long by at least a foot. Make sure your balance point is about one
third from the leading edge of the wing, so if you were to pick it
up at the ends of the wings, it will balance there. Then you want to add a touch of weight forward so it is nose heavy.
This downward force will give you your energy for lift.
Make the fuselage as simple as possible. Perhaps a top and
lower longeron and attach everything on the top one. Center
your load in between these under the wing keeping the balance
slightly forward like I mentioned. Keep your horizontal and vertical
stabilizers flat with a slight upward elevator on the horizontal
stab. As the nose pulls the plane down, the elevator will try
to keep the nose moving up.
Hope some of this helps.

This is great.

Although this seems it would be a bit too big to carry a water bottle.

Wes, as for materials, basically what you mentioned would be okay. So far I have been using duct tape, and foam core posterboard, with some cardboard scraps.

[Skycarl]

Much smaller and probably not,,, much bigger and you will probably have stabilization
problems. Remember, you have to create enough lift to keep it descending slowly.
I would think 6 should produce enough lift for that. That's why you don't want skinny
wings. Like extended flaps, the thicker wing will give you more lift. Fish line should be
good for the strut wires from the king pin on the top of the wing to the anchor points on
the wings. Light with little drag. You could extend some back to the tail for strength
also. As Wes said, a lot of this depends on what you have and can use.
ps,,, don't forget those wires go on the bottom to the lower longeron under the wing.
Balance is the key word. Keep the wings stable and the dihedral solid.

[Nonsensical studios]

What do you mean by thickness of the wing?

[Skycarl]

The chord,,, from front to back.

[WesScog]

Ok, the water bottle is EXACTLY .5 kilograms, or rather, 1.1 pounds.

My suggestion to add to Skycarl's already ideal design specifications, is utilize the waterbottle into the design of the glider as the weight.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6562/planegj9.jpg

Put the waterbottle into the nose of the glider as a weight, if you need a counter-weight if the waterbottle is too extreme, is to get a ziplock bag of sand, and attach it to the tail section.

I would build the skeleton out of balsa wood, and the wings out of foam like Skycarl suggested.

[Nonsensical studios]

Okay. I am not getting it. sorry! :(

What chord do you mean?

[Skycarl]

Gee Wes,,, he wouldn't let me draw,,,, lol.

[WesScog]

You should totally let Skycarl draw.

[Skycarl]

The wing,,,, from the front of the wing,,, to the back of the wing.

[Nonsensical studios]

Ok, the water bottle is EXACTLY .5 kilograms, or rather, 1.1 pounds.

My suggestion to add to Skycarl's already ideal design specifications, is utilize the waterbottle into the design of the glider as the weight.

http://img79.imageshack.us/img79/6562/planegj9.jpg

Put the waterbottle into the nose of the glider as a weight, if you need a counter-weight if the waterbottle is too extreme, is to get a ziplock bag of sand, and attach it to the tail section.

I would build the skeleton out of balsa wood, and the wings out of foam like Skycarl suggested.

That looks just like my newest Design Wes (minus the counterweight. Good Idea)

I should have mentioned this sooner, but I have little over a week to build this, test this, and compose a formal lab report on it.

Builiding a Balsa wood skeleton is too time consuming.

[Skycarl]

Super glue and balsa go good together,,, and it's fast.

[Nonsensical studios]

The wing,,,, from the front of the wing,,, to the back of the wing.

Okay. I get it.

As for the Balsa wood, maybe I spoke too soon. I guess I am a bit too stressed

[WesScog]

I could do a Balsa wood skeleton in a night. *WANTS TO BUILD.*

[Nonsensical studios]

I could do a Balsa wood skeleton in a night. *WANTS TO BUILD.*

Okay.

The skeleton is a great idea. My main problem is that the wings arent stable enough. A skeleton would strengthen them a lot!

I am loving this feedback. Thanks a lot guys. I will start the build tonight and see how well it performs tomorrow or the next day, giving me plenty of time to do the report.

[Skycarl]

Something like this. This is just the basic idea.http://fairfaxonlinebiblechurch.org/pictures/simple.JPG

[WesScog]

The thin lines are string btw, Skycarl isn't suggesting you build a F117.

[Nonsensical studios]

Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it.

[Skycarl]

Hahahaha,,, that was good. I needed a good laugh.

[Nonsensical studios]

At my gratefulness? :(

jk. I laughed at it too.

[Skycarl]

Best of luck on this,,, keep us posted,,,, with pics if possible.

[Nonsensical studios]

Okey Dokey.

[Hugo_Fuchs]

The Boy Mechanic (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/12655/12655-pdf.pdf)
I believe it was page 171.
Based off the wright brothers.
Scale down.
you'll have to play with hanging the bottle to glide.
Some of the projects are dangerous by modern standards (you are forewarned).
:cool:
Preview
http://www.uh.edu/engines/boymech2.jpg

[Nonsensical studios]

I am thinking of just admitting defeat.

So far, even with help, my glider just isnt working. I am going to take one final try at it. :(

[pancakeparty]

as i was saying earlier you might want to consider changing the project around. maybe to a free fall project where you try to lengthen the time at which the water reaches the ground after dropping it from a certain height. the project that you had in mind is extremely complicated especially if you use household items. and physically throwing the glider will result in inaccurate data cause you might throw in harder or softer the second time around.

[Skycarl]

Okay, here's one last ditch idea using house hold objects such
as strong cardboard. ( like from big boxes)
Go to a local store that has small simple toys. See if they have
those old balsa wood gliders that come in the plastic bag for
about a buck and you slip the wing through the cut slit in the
body and same with the tail surfaces. You'll see it has a weight
on the nose. Study the dimensions of that glider and how that
cut forms the curve of the wing to produce lift.
Just a far out idea for you before you quit on this.

[jaworldstv]

what kind of science class is it?

[Nonsensical studios]

It is a general science class.

I seriously don't know what I am going to do. I can make a new project, or I can just stay on this project, make a glider that fails, and do a whole report on it.

I need to finish this by saturday, and record all the results and build the report/backboard on sunday.

[jaworldstv]

It is a general science class.

I seriously don't know what I am going to do. I can make a new project, or I can just stay on this project, make a glider that fails, and do a whole report on it.

I need to finish this by saturday, and record all the results and build the report/backboard on sunday.
sorry im in 10th grade advanced bio. we just talk about cells alot!!

[operationivy5656]

does it have to be a glider
or does a water bottle just need to stay in the air
cuz if i were you id make a hot air balloon
i made one in 4th grade and carried ten pennies for about 30 seconds
until my designs faults(aka using tissue paper)
burst into flames. and i was in 4th grade
so im sure you could get something thats better