Harness System! - Wire-Fu

[zebragrrl]

Oh, I know.. this is "the big boys" stuff.. and it'll probably fall right outside the indy-mogul wheel of prosperity's ability.. but....

I'd really love to see what BFX could come up with for "weightlessness" effects.

[WesScog]

Depends what you want to do really.

If you want a simple "flying" effect, jump infront of a green screen, OR, get a stool, paint it green, and lay on and film yourself pretending to fly in front of it.

If you wanted to TRY to make some kind of Kung Fu battle in the air, my suggestion would be to invest in some military surplus.

You can get a Jump Harness, specifically designed to support a person's weight safely for 15 dollars at:
http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/department/straps-ropes--webbing-10011.cfm

They also have 100 feet of Parachute cord, also designed to support human weight for 8 dollars.

If you were able to make a simple support or pulley system, paint the wire's green, strip the jump harness down to it's basic structure, and put that under a costume.

It wouldn't be unusual to suggest that it could be done for less than 50 dollars.

Two Harnesses 30 dollars, Cording 8 dollars, support hooks from a Hardware store, 4 dollars for enough for two people.


That leaves 8 dollars, which is more than enough to buy a Green Table cloth from a Party Store and pin it up.

There you go, you have a wire set-up for 50 dollars.

The system could be modified for astronaut scenes, a simple kung-fu fight, or Super hero take of's and landing, or anything else that could require your actor to hover or float more than the height of a stool's height off the ground.

Also: Remember to paint the rope, you might also be able to just get the 50 feet for 4 dollars, it'll save you a few bucks, and give you enough money for craft paint to do the ropes, so it's actually more like 48 dollars depending on how much rope you need.

[WesScog]

Well yea, but you'd need a mobile wire rig, which would be more complicated.

And yes, painting the rope green works.

[Jier]

Well yea, but you'd need a mobile wire rig, which would be more complicated.

From what I've seen, wire flying is just a modified version of repelling gear, which we have on the department. Problem is it's something you really, really, really need to know what you're doing with it. Being the guy who pulls the rope that's no problem, but being the one who coordinates it, as well as is in the rig itself, you really need to know what you're doing if you want to do anything really epic with it.

How bad do you need to know before I'd suggest trying it on your own? Well, I'll put it like this. I've been on the Fire Department for two years now. They will train you how to drive before you go for your Driver's certification. They'll let you drive on non-emergency runs, and in training, without it to help you get used to the trucks and learn. With the repelling gear they won't even let you touch the gear until you're certified. You can hand the pouch with the gear in it to someone, but you cannot touch anything inside it.

However, wire-fu isn't as hard has one would think. It's just one of those things you need to train on first, then practice, then do it. Which, I think is why Erik avoids a lot of things like "Car chases," etc. Most of what they do on BFX is just things you can do in your yard, with tools at hand and set up in a couple hours. Wire-fu is definately not one of those things, because you need to plan how you want the actor to go. They need to do a test run with a sack of potatoes to ensure the wires can do the stunt safely with the actor, and you really need to practice it a few times before you try to record it. Even if we're setting up a rig to repel off the side of a hill to get to a car, it takes at least 10 minutes to set it up, and thats with five guys knowing their job and what they have to do.

[17thletterfilms]

I think that a harness system from Indymogul would be absolutely fantastic. I'm not sure if It'd cost more than $50 or not, but I would love one, as I'm sure others would.

[WesScog]

You can get a Military grade parachute harness and 550 test paracord from here for less than 20 dollars.

http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/department/straps-ropes--webbing-10011.cfm

15 dollars per harness, 4 dollars per 50 feet of cord.

They can easily be modified to fit under clothes, and are fit to military specification, so if your rig collapses and you break something, you know it won't be the cord or the harness that will break.

[17thletterfilms]

Thanks a lot WesScog, you really are amazing! How would you build the rig?

[WesScog]

I would use a support system similar to the ones they use for porch swings.

Some kind of strong overhead structure, drill in heavy duty support hooks, test the weight, paint the paracord green, instant floating, flying, wire-fu, rig.

I would suggest getting a friend who has done some carpentry work to help you with this, like someone that knows something about structural integrity or basic engineering or something, and test EVERYTHING before you put a person on it.

But you just need to support it from wooden supports in your ceiling, and hang green screen around, instant rig.

[17thletterfilms]

Okay, cool! Thanks a lot! My greenscreen is in my garage (it's just a painted wall.) And there are some rafters in there. However, the garage was built by some people who owned the house before us so we'd definitely want to double check the support before doing anything with it. Good idea with the porch swing idea. Any thoughts on how you could make a person be, easily, raised up and down?

[WesScog]

Okay, cool! Thanks a lot! My greenscreen is in my garage (it's just a painted wall.) And there are some rafters in there. However, the garage was built by some people who owned the house before us so we'd definitely want to double check the support before doing anything with it. Good idea with the porch swing idea. Any thoughts on how you could make a person be, easily, raised up and down?

Just loop the string through it, and have someone wearing some gloves pull it and then give it slack, the person hanging from the supports will go up and down.

You might need a couple of pretty strong people wearing gloves, OR, get a pulley and add that to the support, it would make it dramatically easier to lift it up and down.

But that makes it more complicated, and an increase in complication invariable leads to an increase in the chance of mechanical failure.

So I would suggest double check everything and try to keep it as simply as possible.

[17thletterfilms]

Right. Simple and low costing. I'm thinking that the rig will be the hardest/most expensive part.

Thanks again!

[SPARC]

Just to give you a reference as to the strength required for something like this. OSHA ( www.osha.gov (http://www.osha.gov) ) would require the attachment point and the safety harness worn by a worker to be able to support 5000 pounds, and that is meant to be only a safety device, not something that they would purposefully be suspended in. They are required to wear the harness any time they could fall more than 6 feet.

I bring this up to give you an idea of the level of strength you need to engineer into something like this. If you're wanting hang someone a couple feet off the ground and you can put some type of cushion under them in case they fall that would be good. If you've got someone suspended more than 3 feet above the ground then you need to put some extra effort into making sure it's a safe rig.

Maybe an even bigger concern is that people who have fallen and been wearing a safety harness have died because the design of the harness restricts blood flow. When someone wearing a harness falls and is suspended in air by the harness then they need to be rescued (removed from the harness and on the ground) in under 10 minutes it at all possible before they lose consciousness. So my point is realize the risk involved in this affect, there's a reason they have professional stunt men and women, they're trained to do this stuff safely.



From OSHA's web site: (http://www.osha.gov/dts/shib/shib032404.html)
Orthostatic intolerance may be experienced by workers using fall arrest systems. Following a fall, a worker may remain suspended in a harness. The sustained immobility may lead to a state of unconsciousness. Depending on the length of time the suspended worker is unconscious/immobile and the level of venous pooling, the resulting orthostatic intolerance may lead to death. While not common, such fatalities often are referred to as "harness-induced pathology" or "suspension trauma."


Sorry if I've put a negative spoin on this, but I don't want your next video to be your last.

[17thletterfilms]

Thanks for the safety warnings! I don't think that it'd be over 6 feet in the air because porch swing things aren't that tall anyway.

[JoebIgBananapeel]

having a harness on ur actor connected to a pully to pull them back . exasple a explosion going off , bullt shot , please , i reallty need this in my next movie , maybe u can explain it in ninjas part 2

[sivhead]

a possible solution is take a picture of ur actor i his/her pose and draw a mask around them then animate the through the air then cut away to them landing....when some one gets blowen away like that it happens so quick that they would'nt get a chance to move.i've used this myself and it works .....if cut right!

[JoebIgBananapeel]

i dont have that type of software

[nooneimportant77]

are you using a green screen for this? if so then you can do it basicly without a harness

[nprules]

i need to know how they "erase" stunt cables in movies

[sirslapshot19]

A lot of times, the wires are green, and they key them out.

[FyceDesigns]

If the cable isn't green or blue, you could get a clean background picture or video (video is probably better) and just cut out the cable while replacing it with the background. Good luck!

[nooneimportant77]

A lot of times, the wires are green, and they key them out.

i've never seen that before.


after effects has a rubber stamp feature like in photoshop, if you dont have that, use a frame of the footage from the same shot that does not have the wire in the same place

[WesScog]

i've never seen that before.


after effects has a rubber stamp feature like in photoshop, if you dont have that, use a frame of the footage from the same shot that does not have the wire in the same place

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RonJJUvdREo

It's how Rob Schrab does a lot of the manipulation on a lot of his compositing work.

Watch that and you'll see a lot of wooden Balsa Wood sticks and strings.

[nooneimportant77]

that was cool and all....but i didn't really see what it had to do with painting out stunt cables. i guess becuse he's moving stuff with green rods and all, but thats not really like a stunt cable.

[WesScog]

that was cool and all....but i didn't really see what it had to do with painting out stunt cables. i guess becuse he's moving stuff with green rods and all, but thats not really like a stunt cable.

You film the scene with no actors.

You get them to do whatever stunt they were going to do with the green wires.

Key the green out. The scene is easily made cable-less, and you don't have to manually go through the frame and paint out the cables.

[nooneimportant77]

^that sounds like a total bitch to deal with, i'd spend as much time perfecting the key on a strange fast moving object as i would going frame for frame.

if it was a perfect studio envornment, and the sections i had to key out were solid rectangles and such like in that video it would be much easier. but i dont think thats the case in most situations with people here.

which is why i suggested just masking the cable out with a frame that is from the same shot, without the cable.

[ThreeOnAMeathook]

Rob Schrab

Lol

Consequences Schmonsequences.

[groovin'larry]

[deleted by user]

[freakonaleash223]

you could make a mask around the wires with the same background. much easier then keying perfectly (with lighting etc.)

[WooShoe]

Guy's, I'm shooting a Jackie Chan inspired short for my film Class. Now, I've roped in the college's Taekwondo team to take part in my project (phase one complete!) but as we all know, a martial arts movie isn't complete without some badass wire work! Therefore, I'd be grateful if you could hook me up with a way to do a Hong Kong fight scene, a la Crouching Tiger stylee, with a cheap wire rig (or similar). Plus I need to know an effective way to do wire removal.

And yes, I know it's dangerous but this is guerrilla filmmaking... and Gorilla’s know best! :D


Thanks.

[17thletterfilms]

I created a thread about this a while back. Wes had some good ideas, check out what he said.
http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=759

[HunnyBunchFilms]

I hate wire-fu. Your better off choreographing fights that utilize your actors skills and talents.

[SpaceCaptain]

So, I've always loved kung fu and samurai films. At the same time, I've always been curious how to remove the wires used to help fighters fly through the air as they battle. Fortunately, I belong to a theatre company with access to a theatre with fly space, so this is a possibility for me. How do I edit those wires out? Can it be done in Final Cut or Adobe?

[BinBinProductions]

Take green cloth or paint, and paint the wires and key them out. Or trace it frame by frame and remove it.
And yes it can be done in adobe.

[datdude1988]

Take green cloth or paint, and paint the wires and key them out. Or trace it frame by frame and remove it.
And yes it can be done in adobe.

Or do what I did one time and film everything in reverse. So if you have to jump on something really high, just jump off of it and do your whole fight sequence in reverse.

[nassersays]

if your camera will be stationary for shots, just film a background plate with no one or wires in the shot. In your editing program, place the background plate as the bottom layer and your fight footage on top, then animate & mask out the wires

[datdude1988]

if your camera will be stationary for shots, just film a background plate with no one or wires in the shot. In your editing program, place the background plate as the bottom layer and your fight footage on top, then animate & mask out the wires

What does that mean?

[Fisherking]

I think After Effects CS3 has a wire removal utility. Basically you place two points at both ends of the wire and it mirrors the pixels alongside it.

[datdude1988]

That's tight.

I wanna try it.

[JeTSpice]

About masking out the wires, it simply means to cut them out and let the background show through. You might have to go frame-by-frame, but you don't need to cut out the wires *exactly*. For instance, you can simply erase everything that is above the actor's head. The background plate will show through. If you use masks, make sure your editing program has "animatable masks" or garbage masks that use keypoints which are animatable. And feather them, because the background plate is never the exact same as the footage with the actors in it.

***
You might also consider supporting the actor from the bottom, and masking out the supports. Flying seems cool for the master shots, but when you've got a close-up of a 3-kick combo while in mid-air, (or something like that) then just put your actor on a ladder and have his feet in the shot.

[happyhands man]

Or do what I did one time and film everything in reverse. So if you have to jump on something really high, just jump off of it and do your whole fight sequence in reverse.
but he has access 2 theater stuffs

[datdude1988]

but he has access 2 theater stuffs

Meaning?

[lyhoproductions]

Depends what you want to do really.

If you want a simple "flying" effect, jump infront of a green screen, OR, get a stool, paint it green, and lay on and film yourself pretending to fly in front of it.

If you wanted to TRY to make some kind of Kung Fu battle in the air, my suggestion would be to invest in some military surplus.

You can get a Jump Harness, specifically designed to support a person's weight safely for 15 dollars at:
http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/department/straps-ropes--webbing-10011.cfm

They also have 100 feet of Parachute cord, also designed to support human weight for 8 dollars.

If you were able to make a simple support or pulley system, paint the wire's green, strip the jump harness down to it's basic structure, and put that under a costume.

It wouldn't be unusual to suggest that it could be done for less than 50 dollars.

Two Harnesses 30 dollars, Cording 8 dollars, support hooks from a Hardware store, 4 dollars for enough for two people.


That leaves 8 dollars, which is more than enough to buy a Green Table cloth from a Party Store and pin it up.

There you go, you have a wire set-up for 50 dollars.

The system could be modified for astronaut scenes, a simple kung-fu fight, or Super hero take of's and landing, or anything else that could require your actor to hover or float more than the height of a stool's height off the ground.

Also: Remember to paint the rope, you might also be able to just get the 50 feet for 4 dollars, it'll save you a few bucks, and give you enough money for craft paint to do the ropes, so it's actually more like 48 dollars depending on how much rope you need.
Thanks. I'm gonna try this soon during the summer.

[Julz-Rulez]

But I Don't Think They Have an Army Surplus in the U.k :(

[ciwi286]

But I Don't Think They Have an Army Surplus in the U.k :(

Yes. . . yes they do!

[Jesse Gouldsbury]

This is really cool. I needed a safety harness for a film I'm working on.

I think After Effects CS3 has a wire removal utility. Basically you place two points at both ends of the wire and it mirrors the pixels alongside it.
I hope it has it. The scene I would be doing is a moving scene and would be a pain to get perfectly shot twice.

[ciwi286]

It definately has one. I havent had a chance to test how it works or how effective it is yet.

[Nonsensical studios]

one question.


Where would you mount the pulley system?

[WesScog]

one question.


Where would you mount the pulley system?

You would mount it into a load bearing wooden support you'd have to build yourself, which is why I suggest getting a carpenters help.

[Julz-Rulez]

Thanks ciwi, didn't know there was an army surplus in the u.k, filmmaking for me now is going to be soo much easier:D. Arghh . There always seems to be a set back. Now that i've found the army surplus uk website. I can't find any harnesses or paracord:(

[Micco6]

You would mount it into a load bearing wooden support you'd have to build yourself, which is why I suggest getting a carpenters help.

More specific please?

[WesScog]

You have to build a support of some kind, that is strong enough to support the weight of you and the rig.

Like I said, not something I would EVER suggest people without carpentry experience attempt to undertake, thats why I suggest getting help with it.

[Micco6]

Ohh. Wow, yeah thats a little too difficult for me.

[defenman123]

I REQUEST USING A HARNESS FOR CHEAP TO PREFORM ACTION SCENES I'M A YOUNG FILM MAKER AND THAT WILL BE AWSOME FOR MY MOVIE

[defenman123]

i really hope you can show me this my movie needs a little action ib et with your help i can achive a nice bloody gorey movie with flying actors ughhg

[Cris Cole]

Bud, it is so espensive and time consuming, not to mention dangerous to use harness rigs. I have only, only ever used them by hiring a stunt codrinater. Two words: GREEN SCREEN. They work wonders.

Edit
(yes I spelled cordinater wrong)

[Mixed-Studios]

putting your actors in a harness its not something you want to do cheaply dude.

[BlazingProductions]

yah, its one thing to make or buy a cheap jerk vest, but once you start hanging people upside down it can get pretty dangerous.

[FreestyleMM]

Many people have asked for this before, and the replies are usually the same. Harnesses are a bit dangerous to use without a trained stunt coordinator. If you're doing a flying scene or something similar, it'd be safer (and not to mention, cheaper) just to use a green screen.

[Mixed-Studios]

by the looks of your post this film doesn't sound good and as i said before when using a harness you don't want to do it cheaply mate.

[Jasonx1024]

well, you can use about 2 belts some large key chain carabiners and alot of greenscreen but otherwise no tips bro just leave it out

[Nonsensical studios]

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL, BECAUSE IF I WRITE LIKE THIS PEOPLE WILL READ IT.

In all seriousness, use the search button

[BlazingProductions]

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL, BECAUSE IF I WRITE LIKE THIS PEOPLE WILL READ IT.


the caps i must read them....:eek:

[fallingstarstudios]

the caps i must read them....:eek:


haha.. but seriously there are many threads on this..

[escapingmyshadow]

okay man... here is what I would do... I would get some rope and get a harness that the actor could wear under the clothes and and attach the rope to the harness under the clothing. Have a crew member off frame attached to a harness and have the same rope and get some clips to hold the actor in place. . Then get a swiveling pulley that is strong and can support ones weight and mount it to a strong branch of a tree or something that is higher and goes over your head....

[Jier]

okay man... here is what I would do... I would get some rope and get a harness that the actor could wear under the clothes and and attach the rope to the harness under the clothing. Have a crew member off frame attached to a harness and have the same rope and get some clips to hold the actor in place. . Then get a swiveling pulley that is strong and can support ones weight and mount it to a strong branch of a tree or something that is higher and goes over your head....

You do realize if he screws it up and maims his friend you're liable for telling him how to do it, right?

[Citrus]

Yes, the search button is God's forgotten gift to the forums. So great, but almost never used. It's like wide shot in a Micheal Bay movie! ZING!

[BinBinProductions]

Haha i remember when i was new and i asked for this. LMAO

[escapingmyshadow]

You do realize if he screws it up and maims his friend you're liable for telling him how to do it, right?

i don't think I am liable. It's like if you go to walmart and by a kitchen knife to kill someone walmart doesn't get in trouble for murder.

It would work man. Just don't do any upside down stuff.

[Jier]

Actually, if Walmart knowingly sold you the kitchen knife including having a vague idea of your intent for what you plan to do with it, then yes. They are. That's why Jackass has so many disclaimers stating, "Please don't send us your videos, we will not watch them. They'll be destroyed. Closed street. Don't attempt at home." Hell, even BFX has a disclaimer. Also it is why when there is a mass casualty event like Columbine, the first thing the Fed's do is search the homes, and find out the locations where the individuals bought the weapons and learned how to use them.

It's like the Fire-walking stunts, if someone asks "How do I do this stunt?" and we answer them, knowing they intend to do what we say, then we are liable for what actions they take with it. This is why IndyMogul shuts down these requests so quickly. Sure, you feel safe now, but a good lawyer can subpoena NextNowNetworks' IP records, they can find out your home address and they will slam your ass when/if the parents decide to sue because you thought it'd be a wise idea to teach their little billy how he could hold his friends on a harness and do wire-based stunts.

Hate to bring this into it again, but I can enter a burning building; I can drag a patient out of it; Hell, I can even work a pair of cutters, but my ass is suspended the minute I even think of touching our repel gear/harnesses without having taken the training for them yet through the state. I can learn 85% of what I need to learn through my Department with my Squad, but Harnesses and EVO aren't one of them. If that doesn't cover how dangerous harness play is, I don't know what will.

[Nonsensical studios]

Yes, the search button is God's forgotten gift to the forums. So great, but almost never used. It's like wide shot in a Micheal Bay movie! ZING!


*high fives*

[Phusician]

Hey, I would like a harness too, but I do not want to hurt my friend (of course, who would liek to hurt his friend is a psychopathic) so if there is any stunt coordinator from the Netherlands here, could you please pm me :D Or aren't there stunt coordinators on Indy Mogul :(

[cubes]

Unless you are a trained stunt co-ordinator, or are lucky enough to be aquainted with one, green screen. Not worth the chance of physical injury or death. Just use some common sense.

[HankXavier]

I have been thinking that it would be awesome to see some DIY stunt rigging, like the jump wires like in this Youtube


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5onGakwrpi4

[Jier]

"Search" button please, this has been talked about a lot and continually pointed out that this is something that needs to be done by a pro. I've played with riggings with the Fire Department and it's so easy to hang yourself, or your actor if you're not doing it right, as well as hurt them badly if they don't know how to hit the padding just right, or even know how to save themselves if they realize they're about to miss the padding.

[HankXavier]

Exactly what am I expected to search being a newby and unfamiliar with industry terms oh wise Kentucky filmographer senior member guy.

Probably would have been more effective to just link the thread rather than lecture. I am 32 you know, how old are you again?

[Jier]

You have to understand just how many times we have someone under 18 come onto this board and request Jump rigging and "Setting an actor on fire safely lawlz." Just travel back into the thread's archives and look. Problem is, when it comes to something that is moderately risky the Mods, and Forum Users have a unwritten policy that we don't share how to do it - even if we know - and suggest that an individual leave it to the pro's.

Rigging is really something you need to leave to someone who knows how to set it it up to do.

Now if it's something like blowing up a fake eye-ball, building a retro-ray gun. We're all over that. It's just stunts we typically avoid.

[HankXavier]

Well maybe there should be some room for some 18+ content here. I have the capacity to work with adults, learn the process correctly, and even buy some insurance if it's necessary.

You can also go to any gymnastics gym and learn how to maneuver on the rigging in a safe environment under the watch of professionals.

I understand protecting the kids, but let's not keep the adults at the kids table around here... Exploding eyeballs are great, but some of us have bigger plans, and the space and means to make things happen. Just not the knowledge...

I dunno - something to think about

[HunnyBunchFilms]

I have no idea how one would set this up. If I needed a rig like this I would probably go down to a local gym, fitness center, indoor rock climbing, etc. Using this kind of rig needs professionals around and you simply can't be taught how to use it in an afternoon session. Maybe you can talk them into letting you guys film your actors flying around in the harness. Then you can probably take the footage and mess around with it.

[HankXavier]

Yo I used to do work on a rig back in high school when I was learning the high bar - you guys are making this out to be far more dangerous than it is I think, especially if you use an attachment that keeps the lines attached to your harness straight.... I just might figure this one out myself.

hmm

edit:
found it
http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=759&highlight=jump+harness

[Jier]

I have no idea how one would set this up. If I needed a rig like this I would probably go down to a local gym, fitness center, indoor rock climbing, etc. Using this kind of rig needs professionals around and you simply can't be taught how to use it in an afternoon session. Maybe you can talk them into letting you guys film your actors flying around in the harness. Then you can probably take the footage and mess around with it.

Quoted for Emphasis.

It's like I said, we're not trying to be assholes, it's just that we don't encourage stunt routines. My Squad does Rescue Repelling and I find it funny that you mention it's not that dangerous, when that's the first thing the State Instructors tell us: It is Dangerous when performed incorrectly.

[PreviewOfThePast]

I was in a crew during a stage play that was in charge of rigging an actor to a harness, and flying him on stage and him landing on a platform.

first time we tested it the rigging came undone and he fell a good 6 feet onto the stage. Second test, it worked perfectly.

Looking back on the experience, it wasn't a great idea to put a bunch of high school students in charge of it but we managed it with the help of a professional that came and visited the set. I wouldn't recommend trying to do it without serious help from someone who really knows what their doing.

[HankXavier]

Quoted for Emphasis.

It's like I said, we're not trying to be assholes, it's just that we don't encourage stunt routines. My Squad does Rescue Repelling and I find it funny that you mention it's not that dangerous, when that's the first thing the State Instructors tell us: It is Dangerous when performed incorrectly.

Well first of all, I don't intend to be any higher than 6 feet so you'll forgive me when I mention I've fallen out of trees higher than that and gotten no more than a few bumps and bruises.

And I think I said "jump" not "rescue repelling" which seem to be different applications of similar rigging. I imagine jumping a few feet off the ground is far less dangerous than repelling down the side of a burning building. Sheesh

Of course you need professional assistance if you are entering into life endangering heights. But that ISN'T what I asked for. I also understand that you need to be careful not to strangle yourself. But I think that is something that an adult can plan for and learn how to avoid.

So kindly answer the question or just see your way out of the thread. The mother hen shit is getting old. No offense.

[Jier]

Before you start attacking me, Hank. Let's be clear. I'm not telling you that you can't do it. I'm merely pointing out that on these boards we generally don't answer Stunt questions. I've been on here since it was started up, and I was a commenter before the boards ever came to be I'm simply informing you that we typically avoid stunt routines.

As for different applications, yes. Application is different but the rigging is all the same. The problem with a jump rig is that it's not simply "jumping." You have a series of pulleys connected to a harness and you'll have a few guys pulling with all their weight to send the actor flying back, or up. Your actor needs to know how to land, you need the proper cushioning for their landing and there are more details in it than just "jumping." In some cases a piston-based launcher is used in conjuction with the pulling crew to launch the actor. This thing can break your leg if you don't hit it just right.

As for falling short distances not hurting anyone... It don't take a long drop to kill a man. Haven't you ever heard of the Hangman's creed: "Short drop, quit stop." That's all it takes to break a neck.

[HankXavier]

well this will be the last suggestion I'LL make - that's for sure

[muffindog]

When I comes to stunts like what you want to do you should stay away from building it unless you are an expert because if anything goes wrong someone could really get hurt, but if you are willing to take a risk then you should find a store that sells these kinds of things and get the low down on how they are made

[Jier]

well this will be the last suggestion I'LL make - that's for sure

Don't be like that, just understand stunts are typically a no-no.

[pendejitodirector]

does anyone know how to make a cheap wiring rig just like in those kung fu movies and in the matrix and all those types of movies also the ones that launch the actor about 15 feet one way when punched.....


please and thank you

[Pure Milk Genius Productions]

I will not be held responsible if this harms you; but simply using a rope and pulley system would be the easiest. I would suggest using a nice strong rope if you're going to attempt this, maybe a green one you can key out, and if your actor is small enough a and willing to put up with it a dog harness works to hang actors. That's what we used for this shot. (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/image.php?7ea23807cf.jpg)

[zeke faust]

hello. i want to know if you nice people at indymogul could show us how to build a harness that can lift someone.
i liked the green screen falling effect, but i think it would look better if there were some harness that you could hide from the camera, but still be mobile.

[Sminc]

im pretty sure they'd never do this-- as much as I'd want them to. It's too risky and dangerous. Professionals who've been traine don them for YEARS still get badly hurt on them... seeing a bunch of 12 year olds jumping from a city-scaled rooftop, held up by a bungee cord and PVC doesn't sound very fun.

Well it does, but not from IM's point of view.

Sminc

[KingNikan]

He means putting it infront of a Greenscreen. Not a bad idea

[Sminc]

He means putting it infront of a Greenscreen. Not a bad idea
w00ps, my bad. Yea, I still think there'd be law-thingeys involved and preventing it. But it's definitely not a BAD idea per say.

Sminc

[ciwi286]

A few people have requested this before and I think if you search far enough back into the archives, WesScog had a few ideas of safeer ways of doing this. But trained professionals get hurt on wire rigs and a homemade one is not the best idea. If you must have one I recommend getting a professional to build the frame and not using it for anything to extreme.

If you only plan it for greenscreen and feel that a method similar to the falling effect isn't good enough, remember you can move your keyed footage to exagerate movement like falling or being blown away.

[KingNikan]

My Plan buy a harness (10 Bucks at Walmart)
Thick Rope or Chain (5 Bucks)
Green Paint (IDK)
Paint Harness and Rope Green

Attach and Hold actor about 2-3 Foot of the Ground and Soot its idiot safe and none willl hurt himself when he falls down

[ArmedSaint]

My Plan buy a harness (10 Bucks at Walmart)
Thick Rope or Chain (5 Bucks)
Green Paint (IDK)
Paint Harness and Rope Green

Attach and Hold actor about 2-3 Foot of the Ground and Soot its idiot safe and none willl hurt himself when he falls down i dont see why u would paint he harness green cause like if it blocks u actor in anyway the green would cover up a portion of ur actor maybe put the harness on a t-shirt then put n another shirt one over it

[KingNikan]

i dont see why u would paint he harness green cause like if it blocks u actor in anyway the green would cover up a portion of ur actor maybe put the harness on a t-shirt then put n another shirt one over it
Oh yeah im stupid lol oNLY PANT THE ROPE

[ciwi286]

one question... how do you propose to suspend your actor?

[KingNikan]

IDK i just thought of it

[TacticalNinja]

Sounds like a unsafe idea, No matter how you do it, it wont sound great, you could get tangled and catch your neck on something. Lawsuits aren't good

[hawaii guy]

:supermad: :cool: :rolleyes: :( :eek: ;) :D :) :grumble:

in a couple horror movie, the ghost or what have you flies into the scene. im pretty sure they use wires but i just dont know for sure. it seems too expensive and to advanced for me anyways, BUT id like to see that in the halloween special. it could have been a cool build for samurai ninja time too.
what you guys think?
http://forum.indymogul.com/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

[Jier]

This has been requested before, problem is it's really dangerous and you need people who know how to set up the rig, and how to operate it.

[speekerphone]

Very Dangerous. There is really no way to do this for cheap, sorry.

[Jier]

Actually, yes. This can be done very cheaply. It's just dangerous.

[hawaii guy]

psh you guys are too negative
plus im not looking to really build a wire rig. i just thought itd be an awesome build for mogulween. throw some fog in there and put some trippy lights and youve got a pretty sick monster entrance. there are just so many applications for this.
But fine, debby downer and negative nancy, you win. it would probably encourage inexperienced children to go out and attempt it for themselves. which would probably end with a loss of limb which is no good.
but thanks for caring enough to check back up on the threads progress jier. glad to see at least some others interested in it.

[hedgehogboy5]

well they might do this in one of those hollywood bfx and see how they do it on the big screen or something.

[ciwi286]

it would probably encourage inexperienced children to go out and attempt it for themselves. which would probably end with a loss of limb which is no good.

Exactly.

No one is being negative, but this has been requested before and it's too dangerous. I doubt Indy mogul would even be allowed do it.

[hawaii guy]

ok




thanks for telling me my dreams are too dangerous:grumble:










and that i should quit dreaming:grumble:









and that ur superior:grumble:










but still

i want to see indymogul build it. they could come up with a safer way. it doesn't have to be a death trap.

so quit being so pessimistic you guys. lets change that attitude.

[ciwi286]

No one said they are superior, no one said you should quit dreaming and no one is being pessimistic. The bottom line is Indy mogul is liable if they show you something and your hurt yourself doing it.

Request it all you want and if you really want it that bad try and come up with your own ways, why does indy mogul have to do it for you. Like you said its your dream. Don't depend on others if you wanna make it happen.

[Sminc]

No one is being negative, but this has been requested before and it's too dangerous.
psh you guys are too negative

We're not negative-- we're realistic. Lol.
As much as i want a wire rig-- like. badly... we can't just use some PVC and some sheet metal, maybe a 2x4, to build something that can hold and move a 150 pounds person safely above the ground.

As for your dreams, keep dreaming.

[Wra1th13]

Well u could do the same-ish effect, just with green screen, and like standing on a green box.

[evmo]

if you really want a flying rig then

http://www.flybyfoy.com/

[uti2008]

No one said they are superior, no one said you should quit dreaming and no one is being pessimistic. The bottom line is Indy mogul is liable if they show you something and your hurt yourself doing it.

Request it all you want and if you really want it that bad try and come up with your own ways, why does indy mogul have to do it for you. Like you said its your dream. Don't depend on others if you wanna make it happen.

I don't think Indy Mogul is liable if they show someone how to do something and you hurt yourself doing it. As long as the "thing" can be done safely and is presented that way.

At some point, the user has to become responsible for his/her own actions. I can show you how to jump off a building, but you can't hold me liable if you decide to do it as long as I teach you that you will die when you are done.

[hawaii guy]

wow










u people have made me realize that indymogul is lame

thank you


im ending my mogul youtube subscription
ending my indymogul.com membership
and taking my ideas somewhere else where im not talked down to by some crazy people.
shoots

[uti2008]

Every forum has it's crappy side. Too bad they got to you. Forum trolls win again. sucks

[TiE_Shepherd]

wow

u people have made me realize that indymogul is lame

thank you

im ending my mogul youtube subscription
ending my indymogul.com membership
and taking my ideas somewhere else where im not talked down to by some crazy people.
shoots

I guess people telling you something isn't practical is being "lame"? No one said anything negative to you, just pointing out the fact that it's not easy to do safely without proper equipment.

I've worked on two projects that have used wire work and I can tell you first hand it can't be done without the proper gear. First of all you have to be somewhere with a proper ceiling to attach things to. Not talking wood rafters or anything. You really need steel beams to be safe. Then all the lift gear. You're either going to need a winch system (not cheap) or a ton of guys pulling on the other end of the line. Any less that 4 or so pullers and the movement will be sloppy. Then you have to figure a line that's strong enough to hold all this weight and forces and friction, but small enough to to be edited out. Plus a harness that's comfortable enough for the actor and has enough attachment points to get the proper lifting points.

[uti2008]

Here is the bottom line. If you saw Charlies Angels one and two, you would never use a line anyway, because it looks so cheap and crappy that it distracts from the movie. Of course those movies sucked anyway.

[BlueDudesStudios]

Hey Indy Mogul.

First of all i think you are awesome and stuff, the alien fx was frigging stunning!!

Anyway i think it would be appreciated by a lot of movie makers if you did an episode on how to make a rig out of cables and stuff to make fx like in matrix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhxbYTMNMxo


I know that they have used green screen and stuff when the camera is spinning around neo but i just want to make a effects when the actor can do some amazing stuff like neo does.


Keep it up guys! Its awesome!

//Blue Dudes Studios

[DeadFishProductions]

Hmm, you could be more specific with your "amazing stuff." Lots of it can be recreated with clever camera tricks, but an actual recreation of the "bullet time" effect is really, really hard to do indy style.

[Luchastyle]

i think he may be referring to wire work. which is also tough to do on no budget

[BlueDudesStudios]

Hmm, you could be more specific with your "amazing stuff." Lots of it can be recreated with clever camera tricks, but an actual recreation of the "bullet time" effect is really, really hard to do indy style.


like neo is doing in the video i posted.

maybe its hard but i want indy mogul to find out if its possible.

[xsanmdanx]

A lot of planning, lots of angles, creativity and a trampoline.

[slicendice]

oi...a low budget bullet time effect?

The easiest way (comparatively speaking) is to do it with wires.

Rig your actor up (somehow) and have him pretend to be dodging bullets in slo-mo while moving the camera around him (the Indy mogul dolly would do).

Unfortunately, this is one project which is going to 100% need some cg work, which seems to scare a lot of mogulers, but this is a really tough project.

[rhysinator]

Hi there.
I was wondering if anyone knew how to make/apply one of those wires/ropes you attach to your actor, so that they can float/fly etc..,
I have already tried greenscreening my actor in, and it looks pretty rubbish.
Any ideas?

[slicendice]

a safe and reliable wire rig on a shoestring budget is not terribly easy, even still you'd most likely need to do some greenscreen work anyway.

[rhysinator]

True. I guess I need to upgrade my Green Screen program then :)

[UndergroundLairProductions]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-8j8c7iL3E&feature=related
Sorry, I just couldn't resist. :D
That said, bungee cords might be the way to go here.

[BlueDudesStudios]

ok, thx for the reply.
Im gonna try it out.

[Jier]

Wirework, depending on what is being done, can be too dangerous to do on a low budget.

[ezboch]

im wrighting this sorta japnies fight sceen and in this guy gets kicked up into the air in slow-mo..
green screen is just a little cheesy for this effect and i was wanting to know if any one knew how to build a body harnes like they do in the matrix...that would be the icing on the cake ...and perty kick ass

[slicendice]

Well if you needed just a harness, you could get a rock climbing one, but a wire rig is very complicated, it involves pulleys and cables and counter weights and it's a whole production.

A better option would be to shoot your actor jumping on a trampoline and cut it in like this:

1.Shot of actor 1 pretending to kick actor 2, and have actor 2 jump a little bit

2.Shot of actor 2 jumping on trampoline.

3.Shot of actor 2 landing on ground.

It wouldn't be total matrix awesomeness, but it's pretty much as close as you can get without spending an ungodly amount of money.

[zachmanZM]

I was wondering if indymogul could make a low budget wire harness, I thought about using clothesline and building something to hold my actor but it didn't work, I would want indymogul to do that, Or if anyone else knows a way of doing it please help!

[TreasureBox Films]

thread about this
http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=759&highlight=harness

[zachmanZM]

thread about this
http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=759&highlight=harness


Oh, There is! Sorry!

[ArtisticProductions]

Ahh. Talk about lawsuits!

Still pretty cool, I was looking for an effect like this.

[TreasureBox Films]

Well if you needed just a harness, you could get a rock climbing one, but a wire rig is very complicated, it involves pulleys and cables and counter weights and it's a whole production.

A better option would be to shoot your actor jumping on a trampoline and cut it in like this:

1.Shot of actor 1 pretending to kick actor 2, and have actor 2 jump a little bit

2.Shot of actor 2 jumping on trampoline.

3.Shot of actor 2 landing on ground.

It wouldn't be total matrix awesomeness, but it's pretty much as close as you can get without spending an ungodly amount of money.
I tested this and it worked amazingly.I lost the vid though.

[magicjo12]

get some 100-200 lb fishing line in front of a greenscreen or not and make a harness out of cloth and belts... hook it up to some bars on ur set or on a tree out side it will look like u r flying in ur movie and even if ppl are watching u from at least 20 ft away it will look like u r flying this could cost up to 50-100 bucks

[SkoolKid]

I saw this thread and thourght Indy Mogul should definetly build this. It would be alot easier with video step-by-step instructions.:gary:

[Jier]

I was wondering if indymogul could make a low budget wire harness, I thought about using clothesline and building something to hold my actor but it didn't work, I would want indymogul to do that, Or if anyone else knows a way of doing it please help!

There is no such thing as a low budget safe wire harness.

[El Dahveed]

Hey, fellow Mogulers! Well, I am here to request a BFX harness build in a future episode. The harness would be used to do mid-air flips safely and give the appearance of flight or sky-diving as well. Thanks in advance for anything you guys can come up with!

[yukiyama87]

(stunt category) wire fu, like in the matrix or crouching tiger hidden dragon, where they run up walls and jump real high.
So I was thinking of getting some straps (like for rock climbing) that could be hidden around the waist and ropes that go through holes in the clothes. real stunt wires are not an option.. so I thought ropes could be edited out by recording the scene without actors. the camera couldn't be moving during that time though. pulleys and ropes pulled by people would make the person fly. a problem I thought of was where to hang the pulleys. to run up walls I would need a tree by a house or something.
so I was hoping you guys could find a way to do this thing. and I'm also thinking this is kind of dangerous so it'll get deleted, but I thought I'd try anyway. I mean with the right setup and enough pull-guys I don't think it'd be too dangerous. I'm still kind of expecting you guys to delete it.. no hard feelings though. if I'm able to do it I'll post it somewhere,, hey can you green-screen it somehow?

(prop or effect category) so the swords. I was wondering if you could make a collapsible sword so you could run people through and not have to push it between the arm and abdomen (it looks really fake). like the collapsible toy light-sabers but sword-ish. or do something to get the same effect.
the other part I want is the sword coming out the other side. maybe cut the sword through a green screen?

[Ruste]

Wow, Wes.
You are amazing, but it would still be pretty cool if BFX did an episode of this. =D

[theSarge00]

Given a person can die just from falling in the wrong way from standing, I wouldn't be so quick to say "only 6 feet". Add in the momentum of swinging along the ropes, ala a faked Kung Fu wall run up, or midair kung fu fight, you're adding both weight and torque. While wirework is usually done with skilled stunt people, you often see celebs in "making of"s getting strapped in...what you don't get to see is all the coaching they're getting from the pros, and the half dozen or so pro's wrangling the other ends of the ropes, and the fact that those same celebs often end up bruised and on occasion, dislocated.

You know those huge bells where the "clapper" is like a log, suspended on ropes next to it, so a couple of guys can pull it back and swing it against the bell? Put a watermelon on the end of the log, swing the weight of the log at the bell, and watch the watermelon go squish. The watermelon is your head, the log is the weight of your suspended body moving through the air, the bell is the corner of a workbench, or a table, or a brick wall, even a sheetrock wall would provide enough resistance before you crashed through it, to snap your neck. Sure, it's the stuff of blooper reels when you overswing and miss your mark, but it can easily end up being snuff film footage if you don't know what you're doing. Next thing you know, one of those callous animals out there will be posting footage of your death on youTube with Keyboard Cat playing you out...

Not trying to discourage you from experimenting, just saying be very cautious if you do. I remember how immortal I was when I was in my teens, but you won't catch me surfing on the roof of a moving car anymore, unless it's absolutely imperitive. Or I've been drinking. Or if I just really want to.

[MalonProductions]

Given a person can die just from falling in the wrong way from standing

well yeah, if your old.

[TheMightySeamus]

well yeah, if your old.
Or if you give yourself a concussion, or twist your neck too far.

[theSarge00]

well yeah, if your old.

Doesn't require age or infirmity to die from falling against something like a table edge, or on concrete - yes, you're likely to survive (even if you're old), but it certainly CAN kill you if you hit it just right. Even the immortal you.

[cardboard_samurai]

I'm afraid I've got to agree with the Sarge on this one. USE COMMON SENSE People! I know it is not so common anymore, but if you just don't have it, talk to someone who does, or buy it on Ebay for Pete's sake.

And for the record, I am not immortal. Heck I'm fine with that, provided you "Immortals" don't rub your immortality in my face.

[HomemadePictures]

i've always wondered exactly how they make it appear that the actor is not wearing a harness when they really are,
that bugs me

[theSarge00]

I'm afraid I've got to agree with the Sarge on this one.
<snip>

Hey - what's to be afraid of? :p Agreeing with me has plenty of benefits... there's a handy tote bag, and a coffee mug...

[revan]

hi i want to know a way to make cables like in films so i can do flips and stuff like that i would also like to know how to remove them in film so it looks like i'm doing all this thanx
if possible erik could you put this on the show

[theN]

Like....cables suspending actors? well matte! draw a matte around teh dude. hmm that didt really make sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBp85mJZHOg&feature=PlayList&p=16F00D181B315ECD&index=5

[Skycarl]

Using flying cables would create a need for special safety
harnesses, suspension framing and a lot stuff that takes it
out of the realm of home made indy resources.

I would suggest going through the show archives and check
out the green screen flying techiques they have used.
Instead of you flipping around, the camera does all the hard
moving keeping the talent safe.

An alternative would be going to a gymnastics teacher and
asking about the harnesses they use to teach flips.
No Peter Pan moves but it does get you in the air. Then mask
out the harness rigging.

[Razback]

Ok do you need cables prop like a generator room about that i suggest using no working real cables or do you mean nylon cables for simulate a flyng effect in a green screen...for this one will be good a BFX EPISODE,AGREED

[theSarge00]

Ok do you need cables prop like a generator room about that i suggest using no working real cables or do you mean nylon cables for simulate a flyng effect in a green screen...for this one will be good a BFX EPISODE,AGREED

Ha pensato di utilizzare un sito di traduzione? Riesco a capire di solito, quando si scrive, ma non riesco a capire la vostra sintassi a tutti in questo uno.

http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en#

.

[Razback]

Ha pensato di utilizzare un sito di traduzione? Riesco a capire di solito, quando si scrive, ma non riesco a capire la vostra sintassi a tutti in questo uno.

http://translate.google.com/?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en#

.


Italiano un po carente ma e il traduttore ,ok i mean he want decoration cables prop or nylon cables for the flyng effect in a green screen

[theSarge00]

Italiano un po carente ma e il traduttore ,ok i mean he want decoration cables prop or nylon cables for the flyng effect in a green screen

Ahh. I believe he wants functional cables (as in ropes) rather than prop "cables" (conduits for electricity). He wants to do a flying rig, as used in martial arts movies to make impossible leaps and the like. Green or otherwise - it's been my experience that flying cables won't key out well even if they're painted green - you still have to do some rig removal. Tip for that..garbage mask your performer (meaning do a very loose rotomask around them). That way 1) your green pull doesn't have to work for every inch of the frame, just the area directly around your performer. 2)This is also true for rig removal. if your actor is masked down close, all you have to do is clean up an inch or so of cable.

[aafilmproductions]

WES you are awsome this is what i wanted to test but you made it cheaper then i thought

[HomemadePictures]

i personally have yet to see a good-looking green screen flying effect, (other than professionals)
that being said, wire-fu sounds a bit risky to me

[FlangvikVideos]

Hi, can you please show us how to make a cool flying effect or a kung fu figth scene. Using strings to take backflips and shit
you know. when you get hit so hard that you fly in to a wall.
Somthing like what they do in the Matrix..:eek:
And ofc how to remove the strings so you dont see them
If they can do that i whud be great!
And even more esay now as you have the BFX team..
HIHI
Please make this...
you sincerely Flangvik..:D

[mathijsdemachtige]

buy a cheap mountain climb harnass on internet and secure straps to it and use a iron rig to support it or drill a hole in your sealing and put a pulley up there to make the scene itself watch the bfx fight scene episode.

does that help????..... I hope so :)

[Joshua D]

search is your friend. been discussed sine 2007.
http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=759

[rab236]

As was suggested to me on these forums about a year ago, buy a parachute harness, wear clothes over it, attach paracord, and build a suspension system. don't go higher than six feet. in after effects cs3 and later there is a pugin for keying out wires. Wes's post is on page 1.

Harness: http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/department/straps-ropes--webbing-10011.cfm

Paracord: http://www.armysurpluswarehouse.com/department/straps-ropes--webbing-10011.cfm