"Film" look?

[Spleg]

I don't know if this is IndyMogul's sort of thing, but I'd really like to know how to get my MiniDV footage to have a more film-like quality about it. If anybody has any help or pointers, please let me know!

[nooneimportant77]

the easiest way is to do it in post, what programs are you working with?

[KenOchalek]

The easiest way is to own a camera that shoots 24p, however there are some post-production options that claim to help make video look like film. Just google "make video look like film" and you'll see what I mean. The downside is that (last I checked) none of these options were free.

But I just noticed that you're in the UK, Spleg, so I'm gonna assume you're shooting on a PAL camera at 25 interlaced frames per second. I'm not familiar with how PAL behaves in post production, but finding a way to turn your interlaced footage into progressive footage (De-Interlacing) might be a good first step, as film footage is (in a sense) 24 progressive frames per second. Which would be kind of close.

But keep in mind this is a dilemma that is still plaguing professionals. A lot of folks (myself included) have just accepted the face that video (even High Def video) is never going to look EXACTLY like film, and that's okay. It's something different and in some ways it may be better. I have a DVX100A and shoot primarily in 24p. It looks amazing, and while it is more film-LIKE than regular interlaced video, it does NOT look like film.

[Will Wheeler]

If you're talking about the effects seen ala Grindhouse, I'm pretty dead certainish kinda sure that they did all that in post. I know Sony Vegas has a completely adjustable Film Effects palette, letting you mess with everything like dust, tint, hair, scratches, jitter and flicker. The presets are pretty useless, but if you mix the Vegas effects with Magic Bullet you can get some awesome looking results.

[Spleg]

My camera can shoot 25i and 25p, and I use Adobe Premiere. All I really want is for my video to look less like video - not necessarily 100% film-looking. I've heard that diffusion filters such as the Tiffen Pro Mist series soften the harsh edges of video and can help to a achieve something more cinematic. Would these be worth investing in?

Also, 35mm depth-of-field adaptors. These don't look too hard to build, and look like they work pretty well. Anybody know any more about them?

[KenOchalek]

My camera can shoot 25i and 25p, and I use Adobe Premiere. All I really want is for my video to look less like video - not necessarily 100% film-looking. I've heard that diffusion filters such as the Tiffen Pro Mist series soften the harsh edges of video and can help to a achieve something more cinematic. Would these be worth investing in?

Also, 35mm depth-of-field adaptors. These don't look too hard to build, and look like they work pretty well. Anybody know any more about them?


Shooting in 25p is your best bet then. I've heard of the Tiffen filters, but I've never used them. I've also heard of people stretching a nylon stocking between their lens and their threaded UV filter in order to get a more diffused, film-like image.

[WesScog]

Lens that allow you to focus and get greater depth of field can go more to giving your footage a more professional look than all of the After Effects filters in the world.

That should probably be a big priority, to get something that allows you to focus more like film.

Other than that, just add a slight grain to your footage, keep it in Progressive shooting, and up the contrast and brightness JUST A BIT.

It can make almost anything look much more dynamic and "alive".

[Paladin1221]

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials.html?id=46

[b-smitty323]

Does any one know how to make footage captured by a miniDV camera get that "film" look?

You know...theres something different about hollywood big budget movies that make them look different than something an amateur makes. I have Final Cut Studio. Don't you have to change the framerate or something? Any suggestions are welcome. If you need more info, just ask. Thanks!

[ninjabros]

Grade it.

[hotelfboy55]

for that movie look, people have to use good lighting, sound, and a uber expensive HD camera. good luck.:rolleyes:.

[KenOchalek]

The biggest step you can take toward making DV footage look more like film is to use a camera that will shoot a progressive scan, either 30 or 24 progressive frames per second (24 looks more like film, but 30 can work too, and might be available on a cheaper camera). I don't know about consumer HD cams, but any prosumer HD cam will be able to shoot 30p and 24p, the popular SD cams that can do this are the Canon XL2 and Panasonic DVX100A and B models. I believe the Canon XL1 will do 30p, and maybe the Canon GL2 (like they use for BFX).

Likke the guy above said, good lighting, sound and shooting techniques go a long way to improving the quality of your video, but if you're shooting on a small camcorder from an electronics store that has only 1 CCD and can only shoot 30 interlaced frames per second, the best you can hope for is something that has the "look" of the nightly news, or older sitcoms like Saved By The Bell or Full House.

But just in case, be aware that big companies and thousands of video professionals have been working for years to make video look like film. Some of the newest stuff gets really damned close, but nothing is quite like film. Now, whether thats a good thing or not is arguable, but just be aware that unless you can buy or rent a true High Def camera, you're gonna have to settle for some level of "not quite film-looking" with your movies.

[BonOfTheDead]

I read this awhile ago. DV and Film are not the same. DV works on RGB, while film works with CMYK.

read this, it explains better.
http://www.filmmaking.net/faq/answers/faq18.asp

I guess you could fake it. With the effects in editing programs now-a-days, i wouldn't dout it.

[nooneimportant77]

woah no DV and film are TOTALLY WAY DIFFERENT sorry had to say that.

well i have final cut pro and a plug in called "film pro" wich makes it look alot like film. but i dont know if that is something i bought in a pack or not hmm boost the contrast a little but dont over saturate the footage, and you gotta have good lighting.

[New Spark Films]

Magic Bullet.

Also, I think the Canon HV20 shoots 24p.

[fireflametv]

i sometimes shoot super 8 (it's become quite professional inthe new milenium) because of the look I couldn't get with mini-dv. I'm going to sell my cams to get a consumer/prosumer hd cam for christmas.

[17thletterfilms]

I think that Andrew Kramer has a tutorial about this technique.

[John the Fish]

^yeah, and some stock footage to key along with it. Also, shooting at a low of a shutter as possible helps.

[baron von fogel]

When I want to make video look more like film, the first thing I do is to shoot it in widescreen. Even if your camera doesn't have a widescreen setting, letterboxing your footage in post works just fine too (just make sure you frame your shots in such a way that you won't cut anything off when you do this).

I agree with what nooneimportant77 said about adjusting the Levels. Film generally manages to get a much richer black than video does, which tends to make large black areas look like big grainy grey areas instead. Playing with the levels and adjusting the contrast are good ways to avoid this. Also some amount of color processing helps, either to saturate your color more, or to dull down certain colors like reds which often become more intense on video.

In terms of the 24p or 30p issue, I've found that if your camera doesn't have that function, I've been able to simulate a pretty good look by using the Time Posterize filter in Adobe Premiere. I'm pretty sure that's what it's called.

Besides these things that you can solve in post, it's important to consider certain things during production, in terms of your cinematography. For example, auto-focus is a really big tip-off that you're shooting on video. So, use manual focus whenever possible. Also, as people mentioned before, good lighting and sound are important. The Indy Mogul tutorials on Lighting and Sound are really helpful, in case you haven't watched them yet.

Hope these suggestions help!

[SyxxGage]

Yeah, shooting in 24 is the standard frame rate used by the studios. As said before, you can shoot in 30, which will get you closer, but its more like television sitcoms and such. They usually shoot in 30.

[LuxuryEntertainment]

stumble upon takes me to so many of these. http://www.dv.com/features/features_item.php?articleId=23902935

[b-smitty323]

Thanks for all the advice everybody! Well...I can't get a hold of a camera that can shoot 24p, I just have my 30p miniDV camera that can't change the framerate. What I was hoping for was something like this:

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorial.html?id=41

(thanks 17thletterfilms!)

but for Final Cut Pro. Is there anything out there like that? Can FCP even do it? Thanks for all the other techniques you guys have give me. Keep it up!

[John the Fish]

Im pretty sure it doesnt shoot 30p^

Probably 60i.

[b-smitty323]

sorry i meant it shoots 29.97 (30) fps not "p". My fault. I knew that equates to 60i, I was just showing it in terms of fps to illustrate what i wanted to do. So to revise what i said:

I want to convert my FRAME RATE of 30 fps to 24 fps. Is this possible with FCP?

[nooneimportant77]

^^ fcp, i just tried a few things and no. after effects yes.

[b-smitty323]

Aw well. Thanks for tryin for me

[RobertHimler]

Does any one know how to make footage captured by a miniDV camera get that "film" look?

You know...theres something different about hollywood big budget movies that make them look different than something an amateur makes. I have Final Cut Studio. Don't you have to change the framerate or something? Any suggestions are welcome. If you need more info, just ask. Thanks!

Hey man, shot this on a consumer Sony camera at 24p.

Edited and color corrected in Final Cut Pro.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzbQ-NlwrU0



Doesn't get much better than that! :D

[nooneimportant77]

^^ that came out pretty sweet

[RobertHimler]

^^ that came out pretty sweet

:cool:

[b-smitty323]

That looked awesome! I wish my camera could shoot in 24p. What camera do you have.

[RobertHimler]

Canon XL2. But that was shot on a Sony PD170

[mr Tree]

Does anyone know where i can find or make a free 'film look' tint for premiere elements. i would perfer something greeny or blueish rather than orange but just some to get rid of the boring DV look.

thanks.

[Scott]

Does anyone know where i can find or make a free 'film look' tint for premiere elements. i would perfer something greeny or blueish rather than orange but just some to get rid of the boring DV look.

thanks.


Is the DV "look" boring because other people say it is?

[WesScog]

Have you tried just messing with the color correction?

[nooneimportant77]

i'm sure with a little tweaking you can do it with everything you already have in that program

[caseyatwell]

just get some thin transparent plastic sheets that are colored.

[rrh]

If your footage looks boring, it might benefit from different lighting more than from a filter. But that could cost upwards of tens of dollars, and you were looking for a free solution.

The free solution is use "levels" and adjust the curves until you have something that looks nice. If you can't achieve something that looks nice using "levels" then return to my previous comment about lighting.

[caseyatwell]

You can buy HUGE non-clouded lightbulbs for a dollor at a dollor store or even bigger ones at any hardware store for 2.50

[Scott]

just get some thin transparent plastic sheets that are colored.


And what, put them over his computer monitor?

[WesScog]

And what, put them over his computer monitor?

I think he meant put them over the Camera Lens.

[etentertainment]

just get some thin transparent plastic sheets that are colored.

Those would be called gels. They are mainly used in lighting to put over a lamp or light with a clamp for the gel. They are special made so they can resist the heat and not melt.

The thing that you are referring to is called a filter. This filter fits over the camera lens to add a color or an effect.

[etentertainment]

You can buy HUGE non-clouded lightbulbs for a dollor at a dollor store or even bigger ones at any hardware store for 2.50

I don't think he can fit huge light bulbs in his computer and be compatible with Adobe Premiere.

[chasingchase]

yeah, fitting them in his comp. would be tough
or
he could use them to light the scene
i know
its a crazy idea
??who uses light to light a scene??

psh

[mr Tree]

thanks....ergh....yeah.....that was...healpful

- its so hard to write sarcasm

[rrh]

Sorry I brought up lighting. But yeah, try levels.

This guy seems to have the subject of "film look" covered:
http://digitalproducer.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=91973-0

[mr Tree]

i found on 'video copilot' the guy uses something called 'easy green' preset.

- is there something like that for premiere elements ?

[The Chosen]

Okay, I still have yet to actually get a camera and start filming but I'm sure it'll happen soon, so I had a question.

I'm only planning on spending money on a $200 digital camcorder. I know those don't shoot the highest quality or whatever and that's my question.

Can I make my film look better using certain equipment on my set? Thanks!

- TC

[WesScog]

Good lighting makes everything look better. The BIGGEST problem with footage usually is that it has terrible terrible lighting, not so much with the Camera.

Having good lighting, and doing a bit of color correction can make almost any quality video look amazing.

If you have a cheaper camera, then maybe you can try to make it appear as if the video is lower quality as an aesthetic choice, rather than as a limitation, (Like for instance, Richard Linklater used a Pixelvision toy camcorder in a scene in "Slacker", and Oliver Stone used a lot of 8mm film and cheaper VHS camcorder work for "Natural Born Killers". Good composition and good lighting can make almost anything look much better.)

Also, like i've said time and time again, superior narrative, and good technique will cover up all of your technological limitations far more than all of the great color correction in the world.

Also, forum member Edwardlavender has a video that some friends of his shot on Cellphone camera's, that looks AMAZING. He'll probably post it when he sees this thread.

[The Chosen]

Thanks WesScog! I figured you would talk about lighting! Lol. And now I wanna see Edwardlavendar's video...like, now!

And so what you're basically saying that I could make interior footage look WAY better if I just brought in a whole bunch of lamps? Would that work?

- TC

[WesScog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5ftC5wyLvU

I dug it up, this was shot by his friends TOTALLY on the little crummy SideKick camera phone.

They just lit it well, and did color correction in post and it almost looks professional.

[WesScog]

Also, go to this thread and watch the video in it.

http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=2557

It's a video that WestHavenBrook productions put out, and it's them talking about Camera's, WestHavenBrook are the guys that helped us with the Stunt Fight episode, and they've shot a LOT of stuff. Check it out.

[The Chosen]

:O

That footage was AWESOME. That's amazing! If you can do that with a camera phone...whoa! Thanks for that! It was a big motivator! Thanks for the thread link, too.

- TC

[bubblefax]

OK i need tips like

1.how to get a pro film look.

and just how to improve video

[etentertainment]

Um, you should use color correction and curves.
They make your video have a pro film look. It depends
on how you color correct it. I'm sure you'll find another
thread like this on color correction.

[Alasdair]

Lighting.

[bubblefax]

Just ny tips

[Alasdair]

this is very broad.

If you showed us something you've shot, we can give you tips on what you need to do to improve.

Really what's important is shot composition (rule of thirds!) and lighting (3 point!)

[bubblefax]

I mean like the best lighting at night and how to get a shot from a bird eye view

[WesScog]

If you don't have tall buildings in your area, or your own crane or helicopter, you can strike any Bird's Eye View shots from your film.

Best lighting at night? Don't shoot at night, shoot at day, and darken the footage and put a blue tint on it.

[Alasdair]

Best lighting at night is the same as day - 3 points.

Shot from the birds eye view - use the crane-jig thing.

Both of these are covered in indy mogul tutorials.

[robby453]

Now I have a choice, I can either buy the canon gl2, which I have been using at my school for 2 years, or I can buy the hv20. I have done my research and decided one of these two are my best bang for the buck.
One thing i really want is a 24p mode. I know the gl2 doesn't have it, but I've been looking around at conversion programs like after effects and still can't decide.

Any advice?
Are there any other cameras I don't know about ?

[FyceDesigns]

As long as the camera you want has 30p mode, you're in luck. You can even get Adobe PE for about $80 and convert your videos to 24p in your export settings. Good luck deciding!

-Fyce

[robby453]

how does the conversion look? does it look authentic?

[FyceDesigns]

I saw a few video tutorials on that effect. Look up "film look" on http://www.metacafe.com (http://www.metacafe.com/). This guy on one of the videos showed how to take ordinary footage, color-corrected it, then exported it in 24p. It actually looked like a professional film video.

-Fyce

[Atomic Samurai]

Since we are talking about fame rates is there really any difference between 24p and 24f? I am looking into getting a Canon XH-A1 but it has 24f.

[FyceDesigns]

24p is interchangable with 24f, which basically means that they're pretty much the same.

[Atomic Samurai]

Cool thanks

[samthemusicman12]

canon gl2 has "movie mode", right??

[kapone]

http://www.gumspirits.com/movies.html

go to this page and watch the trailer for sundowning. this is a feature length film shot on a gl2 by a guy named jim cole. it was shot in 60i and converted to 24p in post. it was also shot in the in camera non native 16:9 aspect ratio. the movie has a beautiful "film look". as you can see, the camera has alot of potential if you know what youre doing with it.

by the way, dont shoot in "frame mode" or fake 30p, it degrades the quality alot. shoot in 60i and convert to 24p or 30p which ever fits your needs.

hope this helps.

[funkrockmasta2]

that's actually really sweet, It does look quite "tinkered" with though

[WesScog]

http://www.gumspirits.com/movies.html

go to this page and watch the trailer for sundowning. this is a feature length film shot on a gl2 by a guy named jim cole. it was shot in 60i and converted to 24p in post. it was also shot in the in camera non native 16:9 aspect ratio. the movie has a beautiful "film look". as you can see, the camera has alot of potential if you know what youre doing with it.

by the way, dont shoot in "frame mode" or fake 30p, it degrades the quality alot. shoot in 60i and convert to 24p or 30p which ever fits your needs.

hope this helps.

It's a REALLY bad idea to shoot in 60i and convert it to 30p, if you don't artificially fill in the missing interlaced pieces, you'll downgrade your resolution by half.

A lot of camera's can shoot in 30p, and frankly it looks better and has less motion artifacting than 60i.

24p though, I agree on you, if you aren't spending at least 5,000 or up on your camera, it's 24p mode is most likely not going to be that good, if it's miniDV, as the DV Codec can't shoot in 24p natively.

[WesScog]

And yea, that looked fantastic for being shot on DV, but it looks very 'messed' with.

[Davage]

Since we are talking about fame rates is there really any difference between 24p and 24f? I am looking into getting a Canon XH-A1 but it has 24f.

I have the XH-A1 so amazing, you have to get it


you can also switch from 25fps to 30fps to 60i

[gcubedproductions]

If you can afford a Canon GL2, I would just stick to that. It's an awesome camera. I used at school once and I would definitely get one if I could afford it. Also, don't forget the Canon HG10. It's a hard disk drive camcorder that I use, it has really cool 24p mode, and is just an all around awesome camera. It's basically the HV20 without tape.

[WesScog]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2duaJzEDns

I like this video from the WestHavenBrook team, talking about cameras.

It's got some really great, and rather unorthodox advice, that comes from their experience shooting a LOT of projects.

[doid]

is it 24p or 23.976? i have both options

[kapone]

wescog, the movie mode or frame mode on the gl2 degrades the quality more than shooting in 60i and deinterlacing and converting to 24p. this is what was done on sundowning. i mean the proof is in trailer you watched. it looks good. i know its a small trailer so that could cover up any quality issues but, jim cole says that the movie looked better blown up on a big screen than it does in the internet trailer. ive been meaning to buy the dvd for a while now so i could get a better look at the quality. jim's first movie day of the scorpion, was shot on the gl2's frame mode/30p. jim says that it suffered quality issues when put on the big screen. even the trailer (when it was on the internet a couple of years ago) didnt look as good as sundowning does.

and yes, the footage has a very messed with or tinkered look. he was going to the wash out, very soft fuzzy glow sort of feeling. the footage was tinkered with in magicbullet to acheive the look.

and to the original poster, i do recoment the gl2. ive owned one for a couple of years now. i rather like the camera. its a very good camera for the money. especially since you can get it for under $2000 now. i believe on B&h you can get it for $1750 after rebate.

[kapone]

23.976

but that rounds up to 24 man. thats just easier to say than 23.976p

[doid]

i know but i have both of thoes as option to choese from

[WesScog]

"It is fairly common knowledge that the video on your TV is playing at 30 frames per second (fps) — unless you live in europe where it is 25fps. However, have you ever thought about why these are the frame rates? Why not 50 or 100? You probably haven’t, but since I think about moving pictures all day I actually know the answer to this.

The main thing I would like to point out, which some of the geekier of you might already know, is that 30fps is just an approximation of the actual frame rate of video in the US. The real framerate is 29.97fps. Why this incredibly strange number you say?

Well, i’ll tell you. In order to make video play back at a fixed rate there needs to be some kind of timing circuit. When television was first beginning, there weren’t any of the high tech silcon-based chips that we use for this task today. So the brilliant engineers back then used the oscillation of AC electricty as the basis for their timing circuit. In the US electricity cycles at 60 times per second (60hz.) So using half of that gives us the frame rate of 30fps.

So the frame rate of television was actually exactly 30 frames per second at one point in time. However that all changed when color television was introduced. When a signal for color information was added to the television transmission there was a big problem. The color carrier signal was phasing with with the sound carrier signal because they were very close in the spectrum. This made the picture look un-watchable. The quick fix they came up with was to reduce the framerate by .03fps which moved the two signals out of phase.

We have been stuck with this frame rate ever since."

[WesScog]

wescog, the movie mode or frame mode on the gl2 degrades the quality more than shooting in 60i and deinterlacing and converting to 24p. this is what was done on sundowning. i mean the proof is in trailer you watched. it looks good. i know its a small trailer so that could cover up any quality issues but, jim cole says that the movie looked better blown up on a big screen than it does in the internet trailer. ive been meaning to buy the dvd for a while now so i could get a better look at the quality. jim's first movie day of the scorpion, was shot on the gl2's frame mode/30p. jim says that it suffered quality issues when put on the big screen. even the trailer (when it was on the internet a couple of years ago) didnt look as good as sundowning does.

I'm aware, that's why I don't suggest using it.

I'm not a huge fan, my little Sony HDR-SR1 is a much better camera, and not just because it shoots 30p without any problems.

I also like how the colors look on it more.

[djwatermoore]

Okay my only input, and not from personal experience. What ever you go with model wise stay away from down converting your footage. Wescogs comment on it looking messed with is because your taking 30 frames per seconds and removing 6 of them which means every 5th frame gets deleted. It causes a jolting or popping effect that drives people crazy. Its very obvious especially if your camera cant shoot progressive. You will be getting fields from deleted frames mixed in with frames that still exist. It can make the "popping" look more obvious. Adding to your problem is the HDV compression with the hv20. where 15 frame blocks of compressed High Definition information are written to tape.

The 24f mode - this is an interesting thing that most people don't realize the complexity of what they are getting involved with until its too late. Yes it works and looks great but, every single shot you shoot in 24f on the HV20 or any HDV camera in 24frame mode, has to be trans-coded. Its what they call a pull-down removal. the way the camera makes 30 frames per second look like 24 is its writes say 3 frames of the image interlaced and 2 progressive. It does this on the fly and the computer has to go through and remove that pattern creating a true 24 fps footage. Its complicated but for a film look, it can be done. Just think about what you are getting into before you start shooting your 2 hour feature on 18 tapes then have to trans-code all of that. The solution is that you shoot with the HV20 on 30fps and you can edit HDV no problem with no trans-coding. You will get about 4 times the image resolution and even though the hv20 is one chip its a CMOS chip which has its advantages over the ccd chips.

[poodlenoodle61]

you guys talked about the things that contribute to the movie look, but i noticed you didn't mention color. a lot of movies have a certain tint, and i was wondering if it is possible to make my movies monochromatic with imovie.

[dimaxx]

Monochromatic - means black/white.
Movie look is achieved by color grading. There are a lot of tools for that.
Amateur will use Magic Bullet or "built-in" tools
Professionals use "Lustre" (don't try to use it, unless you shoot on film)

Also for "movie look" try vinigetting (hope i spell it right), lower frame rates and cool view angles!

[nooneimportant77]

yes you can do it in imovie, just use the black and white effect, and then tint the footage

[Scott]

What exactly is the "movie" look? Don't all movies look like movies?

[Alasdair]

he's referring to how movies on the big screen have a look to them that's very different from what you get on any camcorder

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/2041/sigpr6.gif

[Scott]

he's referring to how movies on the big screen have a look to them that's very different from what you get on any camcorder




I figured that.

Just trying to school the boy on how to be more specific.

[jburas]

What exactly is the "movie" look?

The movie look is a combination of good lighting and color correction. Basic color correction involves adjusting the color balance, contrast, and levels. The iMovie can do this.

And by the way, good lighting is more important than color correction.

[SharpieFilms]

You know how people talk about their cameras having '24p'
Well.....what in the world is 24p??
What does it stand for??
Is it Pointless??
Whats the point of having it??
What?What?What??
Tell me!!!!

[FyceDesigns]

IT IS a framerate. Twenty-four progressive frames per second. No interlacing, just perfect frames. 24p is used in professional films, and 30p or 30i (interlaced) is the framerate of standard camcorders. 24p is often used to make professional-looking movies on a low budget.

[WesScog]

24P is having 24 Progressive frames a second, rather than 60 interlaced frames per second like most cam corders.

Interlaced footage instead of being singular whole frames, actually have only half of the picture of the footage in it at any one time.

Every other line of data in the video will be the NEXT frame, while every every other line of data will be the current frame, and it shifts constantly between the two interlaced images so quickly that it's almost inperceptible, BUT with lots of movement, you can get lots of motion artifacting and it can give you a lot of problems if you're green screening.

24P tries to replicate the frame rate of film cameras that run at 24 consecutive frames a second.

24P will not magically make your video look like it was shot in film, what matters more is cinematic lighting.

Shooting in a progressive signal will look much more like a professional production than anything interlaced.

24fps is not magic, and you don't need a camera that can shoot in it to be taken seriously.

[dimaxx]

24P is having 24 Progressive frames a second, rather than 60 interlaced frames per second like most cam corders.

Interlaced footage instead of being singular whole frames, actually have only half of the picture of the footage in it at any one time.

Every other line of data in the video will be the NEXT frame, while every every other line of data will be the current frame, and it shifts constantly between the two interlaced images so quickly that it's almost inperceptible, BUT with lots of movement, you can get lots of motion artifacting and it can give you a lot of problems if you're green screening.

24P tries to replicate the frame rate of film cameras that run at 24 consecutive frames a second.

24P will not magically make your video look like it was shot in film, what matters more is cinematic lighting.

Shooting in a progressive signal will look much more like a professional production than anything interlaced.

24fps is not magic, and you don't need a camera that can shoot in it to be taken seriously.
Nothnig to add... :)

[djwatermoore]

Not to mention that having an HDV camera that shoots in a 24 fps second mode can be a pain in the @$$ to remove the 2:3 pulldown. People always say its "not that bad" but try it on 10 tapes of an hour short! I agree that its a nice feature but its not the missing link to making your movie look more filmic. I think the 35mm adapters win for the most dramatic look difference but there is alot involved with using them correctly.

[BROKEN Productions]

Canon HV20

[grandadmiral]

How do movies get that certain cinematic look? Do they use filters? If so what kind of filters? Or is just the quality of the cameras they use?

[thepie]

http://www.stormforcepictures.com/theshoot-depthoffield.php

that should help a bit, but it also depends on if your camera shoots in true 24 frames or not. (i think)

[nooneimportant77]

its alot of things.

probably too many things for me to think of right now. but i can say a bit for the cameras.

most of the time, they're using really nice cameras, and shooting on film. Film lands somewhere around 4K resolution, HD is 1080 at best. film records MANY more light values then consumer products, you get a wider rangs from dark to light, and with a pro lighting crew, thats really used to their advantage. and on a big production, the camera isn't just held by someone running and shooting, there are all kinds of people to make sure that everything is in order. sure theres a camera operator, or camera man, but often there is also a focus puller, a camera supervisor, a choreographer, a cinematographer, a script supervisor, grips, and the list goes on.

[jburas]

It's a combination of a lot of things. Some of it has to do with cameras that have higher resolution, a more shallow depth of field, progressive frames, and more exposure latitude. It also has to do with camera placement, angle, selective focus, and placement of objects within the frame. A large part is meticulous, elaborately planned lighting for every single shot. Set design is also a large part of it. And in post you need color correction on every shot. A combination of all those things will give you "the cinematic look."

I once did a test with seven cameras, four super16 film, one high-end HD, one prosumer HD, and one regular MiniDV. We put them all side-by-side and shot the same footage. The MiniDV camera still gave us "the cinematic look" because everything else other than the camera was amazing. Don't get me wrong, the Varicam made an awesome picture, but the MiniDV camera still looked pretty darn good.

[New Spark Films]

Obviously the main part of the cinematic look is shooting on super high quality, super expensive film cameras.

Some tips, though, are to shoot 24p, lighting, and color correction. These won't give you a perfect film look, but it'll look better than typical youtube stuff.

Another thing you can do is use a 1.85:1 or 2.39:1 aspect ratio. This doesn't really do anything but the average viewer might think it's more cinematic if it's in a different aspect ratio than 4:3. Videocopilot.net has some nice presets for aspect ratios for After Effects.

[nooneimportant77]

also a MAJOR help is a 35mm adaptor, i'm building one right now, and its costing alot less then i expected, and looking great

[New Spark Films]

also a MAJOR help is a 35mm adaptor, i'm building one right now, and its costing alot less then i expected, and looking great

How much is that costing you? I've seen some HV20 footage using a Letus mini and it looked FANTASTIC.

[nooneimportant77]

so far i've spent about 40 bucks on tubes, i already own some nice lenses, all i need is a step down ring, and either ground glass or something to act act as ground glass, i already did a test just holding the tubes + the lens + scotch tape as ground glass upto my camera, and it lookd pretty good haha.

[New Spark Films]

Be sure to post instructions when you finish, that sounds great, and $40... wow...

[jburas]

Obviously the main part of the cinematic look is shooting on super high quality, super expensive film cameras.

Not true. See my previous post.

Careful, creative composition of shots and great lighting has a greater bearing on the look of a film than the cost of the camera, especially if your primary means of distribution is the Internet. Remember that Spike Lee shot Bamboozled on MiniDV cameras that are comparable to what you are probably already using. The difference is that his cinematographer was extremely meticulous with lighting and composition.

[New Spark Films]

Not true. See my previous post.

Careful, creative composition of shots and great lighting has a greater bearing on the look of a film than the cost of the camera, especially if your primary means of distribution is the Internet. Remember that Spike Lee shot Bamboozled on MiniDV cameras that are comparable to what you are probably already using. The difference is that his cinematographer was extremely meticulous with lighting and composition.

1. I mentioned lighting
2. Shooting on film will give you a more cinematic look than shooting the same subject with the same lighting on DV, that's all I meant
3. Bamboozled was shot on better MiniDV camcorders than a lot of us use now.

[michaelbak]

Three things my friend... Optics , Film , and lighting and Magic bullet.

[DeviousTom]

canon hv20 =]

[HoboSmackTalk777]

Your object is not to make your movie have a film look, grasshopper, it is to make youre supposed audience forget they are watching a video. This is acheived by careful shot composition, lighting and sound. Use cut's most people overlook and when you've rendered youre finished product make sure it is rendered in widescreen format. This will add to the filmy look. Adhere to these rules especially if you can't afford a high dollar camera. They will help your films as you are starting out.

:cool:Peice

[jburas]

Check out Citizen Kane (http://movieimages.tripod.com/citizenkane/). It's not widescreen and doesn't have a shallow depth of field on most shots, but it looks amazing. I cannot emphasize enough the importance of careful shot composition, lighting, and color correction. These are (relatively) cheap and can make your film look outstanding.

[music_jake]

Does anyone no what kind of color fixing would i have to do with pinnacle to get the film look?

[17thletterfilms]

I don't think that there's any "color fixing" in Pinnacle. There might be some saturation and contrast controls though, try pumping those up.

[Captain SteveBeard]

Depends on which version you have.

You should be able to go into the color correction effect and up the contrast and saturation (slightly) though.

If you have Pinnacle 11 Ultimate, use the free ProDAD Vitascene plugin that came with the software and select the film look filter.

[frdo25]

i use the drc-hc42 from sony and anytime i try and shoot something you can tell it was shot from what looks like a cheapo camcorder. i mean my camera (dsc-h2) has a better look on play back. i was wondering if there is anything you can do in after effects to fix this. thanx.

---------------- Now playing: Finger Eleven - Lost My Way (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/finger+eleven/track/lost+my+way) via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[Vaughn Whynot]

i use the drc-hc42 from sony and anytime i try and shoot something you can tell it was shot from what looks like a cheapo camcorder. i mean my camera (dsc-h2) has a better look on play back. i was wondering if there is anything you can do in after effects to fix this. thanx.

---------------- Now playing: Finger Eleven - Lost My Way (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/finger+eleven/track/lost+my+way) via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)
i have a sony drc hc52 and mine looks fine...are you using new tapes or old?
and are you shooting in well lit areas?

[Vaughn Whynot]

also what the hell is this???

---------------- Now playing: Finger Eleven - Lost My Way (http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/finger+eleven/track/lost+my+way) via FoxyTunes (http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/)

[jburas]

It has little do with your shooting format. The best way to get a film look to is shoot like film, which means good lighting, cinematography, and production design. These are practices that work for miniDV, high definition video, film, whatever. I guarantee a good cinematographer can make your miniDV camera look better than an amateur with the latest-and-greatest, high-end RedOne camera.

That being said, shoot at 24p and do color grading on every shot.

[Vaughn Whynot]

i was looking for this setting on my camera but couldn't find ut
and also
which is better for audio 12bit or 16bit

[jburas]

which is better for audio 12bit or 16bit
16 bit is higher quality. 12 bit gives you 4 channels of audio, but it's pretty pointless unless your camera has 4 audio inputs (which is seriously doubtful).

[NaziActionFigure]

It has little do with your shooting format. The best way to get a film look to is shoot like film, which means good lighting, cinematography, and production design. These are practices that work for miniDV, high definition video, film, whatever. I guarantee a good cinematographer can make your miniDV camera look better than an amateur with the latest-and-greatest, high-end RedOne camera.

Amen.

[WorkedOverProductions]

Jburas, at least research some before you say "shoot in 24p". The dcr-hc42 doesn't have the ability to shoot in 24p.

In AFX, there is a plugin you can download to convert your footage from 60i to 24p. Give me a sec and lemme find it.

http://www.videocopilot.net/tutorials.html?id=41

Enjoy.

[NaziActionFigure]

Jburas, at least research some before you say "shoot in 24p". The dcr-hc42 doesn't have the ability to shoot in 24p.


His post asked "How to make Mini-dv more filmy looking" not "How to make the dcr-hc42 look more filmy looking.".

[WorkedOverProductions]

His post asked "How to make Mini-dv more filmy looking" not "How to make the dcr-hc42 look more filmy looking.".

Read his post, not the thread title.

[jburas]

Read his post, not the thread title.
If you read my post, my point has nothing to do with the camera you are using.

[google550]

There have been a BILLION posts about this, but to sum it up.

Using color correction, increase the saturation a bit until it looks good, darken your blacks a little, and make sure your scene is well-lit. Even if you're shooting at night, light it really well and darken it in post-production. Your shots will be disgustingly grainy if they're not well lit. So long as it's well-lit, you can actually make your DV look pretty damn close to HD. DV just doesn't pick up shades of black very well.

Give it a spin! You'll be surprised!

[WorkedOverProductions]

If you read my post, my point has nothing to do with the camera you are using.

I understand that, and I'm not trying to get under anyones skin, I'm just sayin, post whats relevant to the camera hes using. Makes for less confusion in the long run.

[toppie34]

just use some basic color correction use enough light in your scene have good angles make the color correction match up with the mood you try to create and also dont downsize your footage always try to make it look its best in production it will get downsized enough on youtube :p

[Big_B]

Magic Bullet by red giant software works wonders, but I think it's far beyond the budget of most mogulers... but if you had the cash, It might be an excellent investment

[redtail5]

ok, i got my dvx 100b last week, but the footage seems to lok realy grainy, are there any ways i can remove this without software that i cant posibly afford?

[Vaughn Whynot]

ok, i got my dvx 100b last week, but the footage seems to lok realy grainy, are there any ways i can remove this without software that i cant posibly afford?
more lights
when there isn't alot of lights the film gets grainy

[google550]

LIGHTS, LIGHTS, LIGHTS, LIGHTS, LIGHTS!

LIGHTS!

But not TOO many lights, because then you get hot-spots which are shiny points on the actor's face, where there's no color at all, just a splotch of white, so when you try to lower it on your color-correction, it just becomes gray.

DISASTER!

[redtail5]

thanx guys, i was lighting my vids, but I dont think realy enough, i'm gonna try more lights today cuz i want my damn moneys worth out of dvx!

[next-tarantino]

Lights.

And make sure your F-stop, ISO, white-balance, and gain are all set to appropriate levels.

[_ray_biddle_]

RedTail5- Just keep shooting! Use a tape or two and go through every function of the camera. One thing about those higher end pro cameras, you have to practice.

Never depend on the editing software to do the job, it is just a tool.

Also have an idea of what the shots should look like before you press any button. If something isn't coming out like you thought it should, eventually you'll know the fix by heart.

And like others have said, add more light.

I look forward to seeing your work.

[17thletterfilms]

redtail, you have a Panasonic AG-DVX100B? I'm jealous.

[mr_morp]

I have a canon zr 930, which is a very good camera. The only problem with it is that i need a "cine look" to it, and there isn't an option in the menu to get that. Does anyone have any suggestions for getting that film look in editing or during filming? Thanks for all your help.


:D And happy birthday Indy Mogul!!!! :D

[Nonsensical studios]

35 mm Lens might help...But I don't think you have the money, So
Try changing the shutter speed.

[Westcroft]

Lighting, DOF adapter, etc. Use the search, there are multiple threads that talk about acheiving a film look.

[Ladri.]

Well, if you had the canon hv30, it has a cine look on it.

[Fisherking]

You know, you're really not going to get a very convincing cinema look on a handicam. If you light the scene well and subtly colour correct, your film will look much better, but I sincerely doubt anyone's going to believe you're shooting with a 35mm camera -- you just don't have the hardware.

Unless 'cine look' is a filter of some sort -- I think some entry-level cameras have a 'cine look' toggle that emulates a bleach bypass.

[mopman]

don't even attempt a "cine" look. Just try and make your videos look as good as possible. If you have seen a movie like 28 days later that was all digital and has a very distinct and appealing look. Take advantage of DV

[Jier]

don't even attempt a "cine" look. Just try and make your videos look as good as possible. If you have seen a movie like 28 days later that was all digital and has a very distinct and appealing look. Take advantage of DV

Agreed, there is only so far you can take a DV, I know I have one myself. However, just because you don't have that "look" doesn't mean you still can't have proffesional looking video. You just have to put forth the extra effort and make it look as good as you can.

Afterall, remember all the great movies weren't shot on the latest cameras.

[mopman]

either way I think film is overrated. It is just another way of capturing light and making it into a visible image. I think the camera is only as important as the things put infront of it

[Westcroft]

I think when people ask about the "film look" I don't necessarily mean they want to recreate the look of that medium, but they're just looking for ways to make their videos look better... better meaning, not homemade...

Lighting, color correction (making colors vivid and what not), and possibly a DOF adapter can all add to having great footage. It will never look like film, but it can look like it belongs on the big screen!

[google550]

Agreed. I like to color-correct my work. I don't do it to make it look like film, again, I just like making my colors warmer and drier.

[jburas]

http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=8133

[mr_morp]

Thanks for all your input

[punkandska66]

you wont be able to make it look like 35mm with DV. But you can sure as heck try. Lighting, and colour correction, and nice shots (dollying, cranes, etc.) really help enhance the "film "feel.

[toppie34]

the best thing yo do is... to just color correct it lght yyour scenes good get a good angle and you could maybe buy a plugin that can change your 30 frames a second to 24 frames per second

[amc760]

I think when people ask about the "film look" I don't necessarily mean they want to recreate the look of that medium, but they're just looking for ways to make their videos look better... better meaning, not homemade...

Lighting, color correction (making colors vivid and what not), and possibly a DOF adapter can all add to having great footage. It will never look like film, but it can look like it belongs on the big screen!

As for me, when I saw I want the film look, I mean it. I love the look of overexposed film. See Spike Lee's movie Clockers to see what I mean.
The story of the movie is so-so compared to the book, but god I love how they shot that movie.

[Brainstrained]

Well, if you had the canon hv30, it has a cine look on it.

No shit, huh?

Mind my asking how does that help solve any of this dude's problems?

[jburas]

Already a thread on this:
http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=8133

[Skycarl]

Agreed. I like to color-correct my work. I don't do it to make it look like film, again, I just like making my colors warmer and drier.

I agree. Your best bet is working with your color correcting in
your effects controls. It just takes some practice and playing
with it a bit. Here is a link for a tutorial in AAE using this.
http://library.creativecow.net/articles/coots_brendan/greenscreen.php
The basics should work in any editing program. Good luck.

[Kurgasnorez]

don't even attempt a "cine" look. Just try and make your videos look as good as possible. If you have seen a movie like 28 days later that was all digital and has a very distinct and appealing look. Take advantage of DV


?!

really?

all digi? what did they use?

this is big news to me. i loved 28 days/weeks.

[TacticalNinja]

Well, if you had the canon hv30, it has a cine look on it.
What the hell! What sorta post is that. He doesnt have that so why would you even post somthing like that?

Achieving the 'film look' is well all about your audio, lighting, music and then video. its important to have things like depth of field if you can do that, but if you can't like me, your gonna have to just do your best with what you got and do some color corrections.

The frame rate and shutter speed is used to create a film look most often.

[joeyrules92]

hey all, im hoping to make a feature film this summer, and if it's successfully done i was planning on getting a DVD projector and playing it on a theater screen. but i have an HV20. even if i use HD, will that look crappy?

[nooneimportant77]

how big is the screen, even standard deff can look ok. HD should be fine in most cases.

[MitchellStafiej]

On a Theatre screen? It might look bad. Depending on your projector. If you had a regular projector screen it might work. I haven't tried it out with a Theatre screen...

Cloverfield was shot on DV and played in theatres, so was 28 Days Later. So I don't see why it wouldn't look good. You may want to consider exporting to film though, might get you better quality.

Mitch

[WesScog]

Well Cloverfield was shot with a combination of rigs, mostly HD rigs, and some professional rigs.

28 Days Later was mostly SD rigs I think.

[MitchellStafiej]

Well Cloverfield was shot with a combination of rigs, mostly HD rigs, and some professional rigs.

28 Days Later was mostly SD rigs I think.
Yeah 28 Days was shot on an XL1 I think.

Mitch

[nooneimportant77]

yeah i forgot about 28 days later being SD.

only a few select parts of cloverfield were actually shot with the HVX, most of it was shot in 2 or 4k

[joeyrules92]

yea, it'd be like a full sized theater screen.

[jburas]

Actually, Cloverfield was shot in HD. You can see which cameras they used here:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1060277/technical

28 Days Later was shot on DV, but using DV was more of an intentional aesthetic choice to contribute to the realism. Lower resolution was specifically used for its visual quality, not because of any limitations of equipment. The cinematographer was really, really careful with the process though, which is why it looks so great. Here's a really great article about the film:
http://www.theasc.com/magazine/july03/sub/index.html

I saw a DV short of mine on a big screen and was actually surprised at how good it looked, but this was at a really high-end cinema. The better the playback system, the better it will look. I was also a projectionist a big festival where one of the screens was actually just a DVD player and I bet most people in the audience didn't even notice. Some people will know the difference, but most won't.

If you shoot in HD, playing it from DVD will significantly reduce quality. A Blu-Ray version will look a lot better. Or you could hook up the projector to a laptop and play a video file– which is probably what I would do.

HD shooting and HD projection > HD shooting and DVD projection > DV shooting and DVD projection

[mopman]

just reenact the movie on broadway... SHOWTUNES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HunnyBunchFilms]

Regular dv looks like crap on the big screen. If your using a regular 1 chip little crap cam then the footage won't look any better than it should.

[google550]

It should look fine. I've had Mini DV stuff played on a big screen, and it looks pretty good so long as it's at its highest quality.

HD will look great.

[elscottomagnifico]

As long as you take your time to light each shot well it will look fine on a theater screen. HD, resolution wise, is nearly the same as 16mm film. Would you have issues with 16mm films being shown in a typical 35mm format theater?

A 1 chip camera isn't necessarily worse than a 3ccd camera. A nice CMOS sensor will do as well as a comparable 3ccd setup - a single CCD, usually used in cheaper SD cams, will under perform the CMOS and 3ccd setups though.

[WesScog]

A single chip camera doesn't by default have a lower resolution, what matters is sensor size.

The 3 Chip just potentially gives it a bigger color latitude, but that doesn't mean that they will, like I said, it depends on sensor size, and the quality of the manufacturing involved.

Some people prefer 1 Chip even, WestHavenBrook used a 1-Chip for a long time, they said it produced an image that was superior to a 3-chip, they said the 3CCD made it look like a cheap Spanish Soap Opera, while the 1-Chip had a more de-saturated look.

They said what was the biggest part was whether it had Progressive scanning of the image or not. That was the biggest kicker on making it look professional or not.

[elscottomagnifico]

I don't think anyone was implying that a 1 chip camera is lower resolution than a 3 chip. The idea is typically that a 1ccd camera renders color/picture less effectively than a 3ccd setup. Many also believe that a 3ccd system is inherently better than a 1cmos sensor setup (in picture/color reproduction), but that is typically untrue as a cmos will do as a well as similarly priced 3ccd setup.

[kenkyusha]

Will you be shooting w/a DOF adapter? What kind of editing software will you be using (E.G. there are some pretty solid HV20 workflows for FCP)?

Be well,
Jigme

[Ronster]

What is pulldown exactly? I know it has somethign to do with encoding DV...and something to do with fps...
I've tried to read up on it, but I had no idea what it was talking about...
Help!

[neckstab]

Pulldown is the process which compensates for the differences in frame rates between film and video by creating new frames

The term “pulldown” comes from the mechanical process of “pulling” the film down to advance it from one frame to the next at a repetitive rate (nominally 24 frame/s).

Here is another resource:
http://www.videohelp.com/glossary?P#PULLDOWN

[Ronster]

I heard there are pulldown problems if you want to shoot in 24p...
Makes it 30p or soemthing like that...this true?

[neckstab]

Go to this faq and see 11a - 11d. I think this will help you. All about DV pulldown. The whole page has a wealth of info. Hope this helps.

http://www.hv20.com/showthread.php?t=3058&highlight=basics+pulldown

[bobaandy1]

Some cameras shoot 24p at 30 still, and you have to use whats known as an telecine to get it to 24p.

[Ronster]

Should I even bother, honestly? Is the 24p converted to 30fps really that much different from true 24p?

[neckstab]

Your question totally depends on your gear and your intentions.

Example:
24p on a canon HV20 with a decent 35mm adapter can produce some very film-like results.

If you shoot 30p with the same setup it won't look the same. It will be much sharper (more TV-like). This can produce a nice picture for internet also.

I would suggest learn your camera like it's the back of your hand. Also it's a good idea to do some quick tests with low light vs day light, close vs. far subjects and moving subjects in both modes for example. That way you can be absolutely sure of the differences. Is it a Canon?

[Ronster]

Well, I'm saving to buy the HV30 and was doing some research. I do plan on buying a 35mm adapter.
I know the differences between 24p and 30p, I just don't know the difference between true 24p and 24p converted to 30p.

[elscottomagnifico]

Well, I'm saving to buy the HV30 and was doing some research. I do plan on buying a 35mm adapter.
I know the differences between 24p and 30p, I just don't know the difference between true 24p and 24p converted to 30p.
The HV series shoot true 24P. It's just placed in a 60i stream which is awkward to do a reverse pulldown on - So it isn't even made into 30P.

Not to fret though. There are free setups that will automatically remove the pulldown correctly for the HV. Once you run the program, the 24P footage will be available and it will still be true 24P.

[CindyLynn]

WIP

Hello. I'm going to write an IndyMogul essay on making your tiny camera "look" more professional. I really don't have a lot of idea's as how to do this, but have inclosed what I know.


http://i35.tinypic.com/4s0e38.jpgPictured: A Canon HV20 in a professional rig.


What your looking at is a mix of 4 medal rods, "|_" or "_| shaped brackets. So you've got a simple matte box made out of cardboard / light plastic. In the back that's the medal rods, with a little sholder pad put it and wraped up. Also in there is a DoF adapter, but... those are really costly.

Gear List:
Seen here is a small, yet great camera, the Canon HV20, yet with this, it looks like a professional camera. Here's whats on there, and what you need.

The case:
Metal Dowels:http://www.flagandbanner.com/f-b-images/cpole34dowel.jpg
"|_" bracket: http://www.mcwoods.com/catalog/_L_Bracket.jpg

[Large size, call them "L brackets".]


The Shoulder Mount:
Two Coat Hangers, Wire:http://www.themagazine.info/56/Pictures/Briner%20inc/HangerChromeThree.jpg
Seat Belt Protector:http://www.mopocket.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/seat-belt-with-cellphone-compartment.jpg

This ones has pockets, but your should not.Instuctions:
Cut and bend wire hangers to fit shoulder, wrap in seat belt protection unit.





DOF Adapter:
This is the cheapist way. (http://www.jetsetmodels.info/pics/basic_35mm_dof.pdf)

[Flamekebab]

You're going to need to host the pic somewhere else. That link requires a login. Try TinyPic (http://tinypic.com/).

[Ronster]

Also in there is a DoF adapter, but...
But what? Something wrong with a 35mm adapter?

So you're telling us that in order to make our rig look more professional is to dump hundreds of dollars into a rail system, a handle, and a shoulder mount?
Uhm thanks, but I don't really feel that aesthetics matters. If your little cam gets the job done then why try to make it look more professional?

[Davidian]

So Cindy, you bought the HV20 after all? Are you actually going to use the camera, or did you buy it just to berate it and smack it around a bit?

All seriousness though, what do you think of it so far? keeper?

[CindyLynn]

Woh. I got eaten ALIVE in this thread.
I was planning to build a community effort to list all the DIY addons you can build that make your camera look and feel more pro.

[Davidian]

I can see the pic now. My rig looks similar to that one, buy my shoulder harness is lower (attached to the lower rail system, I do not have rails up top). Having it higher may be the way to go though... lower center of gravity and all. That pic from HV20.com? Looks familiar.

[CindyLynn]

It was posted there.... I mean its not like I'm an internatioinal picture thief.

[elscottomagnifico]

On a budget style "pro look" you can go for a lens hood, black tripod (black always says "pro" to the average person quicker than anything else for some aesthetic reason) and a shotgun mic (mount it on top most of the time, but bring a boom pole with you). The setup will look at least prosumer if anything this way and each piece of equipment provides both an aesthetic change in kit and a legitimate alteration to your overall production value.

Don't be so harsh with CindyLynn, the other thread is in the past. The issues with the HV20 not looking pro are legitimate and this thread is just trying to find ways to change the look of your gear to negate this issue. Some people want to look pro and increase their chances of getting hired, others prefer to focus on the footage alone for personal projects. I say, to each his own.

[EnipProductions]

Well that still doesn't look that great. If I had mine I would grab a pic but I am still on holiday.

The problem with your rig is that you have no front handles so the sholder mount really won't be that stable.

You need a monitor aswell becuase you will not be able to frame or focus easily upside down

Need a Mic, seriously this is THE first thing you buy followed by a tripod. Sound can make or breaks a film.

I wouldn't reccomend a shrigg rig (Upside down), it just complicates matter when it comes to doing some manule controls

Also you need to purchase a followfocus, its a very help piece of kit.

Just some advice

[Hunterr]

I wouldn't reccomend a shrigg rig (Upside down), it just complicates matter when it comes to doing some manule controls

Um...the shrigg rig isn't just another name for an upsidedown rig.

and FYI when you have a 35mm adapter...you use the focus ring on the 35mm lens. Nothing is blocking the lens.

-Hunter

[Davidian]

It was posted there.... I mean its not like I'm an internatioinal picture thief.

umm... ok. I think maybe you are placing a frowning face where a smiling face should be. Maybe I should use these more ;)
Anyway, if it was from somewhere other than hv20.com, I would have enjoyed trolling around on their boards as well.

My other question was inquiring how you were liking the HV20. I thought that saying "in all seriousness though" would help imply I was joking about berating the camera. :love: So yeah... what do you think about the camera now that you have one? :dance:

[waveform]

It was posted there.... I mean its not like I'm an internatioinal picture thief.

Sorry, that made me laugh, all your firm statements and agreements with others about music being used without permission, and you do this blatant copyright theft! And you say it's ok because it was posted on a forum and you're not an international picture thief, as if that makes it ok! :nonono: :teehee:

Anyway, getting back to the picture content, the DOF adaptor looks like a home made one, it has macro extension tubes fixed to it, which pro-ones don't have (unless somone can tell me different), and the lens used is a Nikon circa 1960's. So it's probably not that costly.

Not sure about the Matte box, it does look like a pro one though.

The rails look like carbon fibre. I think the image has been over sharpened, this over emphasizes highlights, and the highlights on those are in a pattern similar to woven carbon fibre tubing (very familiar with the material). That stuff is not cheap, so a bit of an economy conflict there. Although, I have seen rail systems that come out of India that use CF, they are really costly though.

The shoulder pad I can take or leave, there's nothing I'd want to film with that holding method, so whatever on that one.

On the viewing the subject thing, I'm guessing the ball tripod head is a mount for a monitor.

But, all of this is very well, but why on earth would anyone feel compelled to want to make there gear look better at all?, Surely this guy has built something for a purpose, with a limited budget beacuse he might be in the position we are, I don't see it as an effort to make a small camera look more pro.

What are the rates for video work for you? I've just witnessed a 15 min DVD being made to help explain to our workforce why they should adopt a different pay structure, the film cost £40,000! It was a great DVD. Why would anybody in that arena want to faff around with stuff like this? Just go buy a decent camera. I can't see how if the concern is to impress a client, why you're charging so little that you've not got the pro gear anyway, something not right here.

[Skycarl]

You know, if some one doesn't have 2 grand lying around to put into a camera and they
would like to make it look a little more impressive, what the heck is wrong with that.
People eeeww and aaawww when someone one glues a stick on a toy,,, and then go
nuts because someone else has a project they don't get. Personally I don't see myself
doing all that for my cameras but I can see some in here enjoying doing a project that
makes their cameras look like there's more to it.

[waveform]

Nothing 'wrong' with it, my point is that Cindy seems keen create an impression of pro looking kit, having voiced concerns about potential clients possibly not being impressed on other threads. What I don't understand is why someone with formal clients is in such a position, which is what I said clearly enough above.

[EnipProductions]

Um...the shrigg rig isn't just another name for an upsidedown rig.

and FYI when you have a 35mm adapter...you use the focus ring on the 35mm lens. Nothing is blocking the lens.

-Hunter

FYI I wasn't taking about focus, I was talking about exposer, shutter speed etc.. Thats what manul controls are

[filmgeek29]

I dont know if a thread has been done of this but there should be a eposode on how to give your project a film look.I have seen a lot of cheesy attempts but there has to be a way with FCP.

[punkandska66]

Use the search button. It's next to where it says "Welcome, filmgeek29." and all the other stuff.

[filmgeek29]

thanks alot erick beck. if it is really erick beck.

[punkandska66]

No, why would you think I'm Erik? My username is Punkandska66...

[WesScog]

Because of your Signature.

[WesScog]

Also:

http://forum.indymogul.com/showthread.php?t=8133

[punkandska66]

Because of your Signature.

Ahh, I see. Well, see now I made it a quote.

[BandDfilms]

No, why would you think I'm Erik? My username is Punkandska66...

i told you:rolleyes: already

[Biohazard Productions]

if you want a film look just add a 35mm adapter to your camera. if you want you can go watch a previous episode of 4 minute film school. theres an episode that completely covers the 35mm adapter

[Pacarus Maxilus]

Hey Guys,

Any suggestions on how to use "Magic Bullet" to get that Hollywood film grain look? I realize that they use the bigger cameras on the lots, but can the same look be achieved with Magic Bullet?

Thanks!
:)

[ciwi286]

I'm not sure about Magic Bullet but Video copilot has a preset to do this in after effects.

http://www.videocopilot.net/presets/fast_film_grain/

[Pacarus Maxilus]

Thanks for your response ciwi...is Video Copilot a plug in for AE?

[nooneimportant77]

After Effects has a built in "add grain" effect that I'm pretty sure has actual film stock settings.

[Pacarus Maxilus]

nooneimportant77-- I am aware of that function. However, I do know that using the basic built in features in AE will not get the look that High end 35mm provides. Magic Bullet and Cinelook were made for that reason.

But, when deperation calls, I will try the "add grain" effect...LOL Thanks!! :)

[nooneimportant77]

AE isn't going to get that high end 35mm look no matter what you do. The closest you're going to get is starting by converting to LOG color space, and depending on which version of AE you have there are different ways to do that.

EDIT: I should point out, After Effects will provide endless "film looks" on its own. Programs like Magic Bullet, or Cinelook (which I don't think exists anymore) aren't really necessary, if you've learned AE through and through. Pretty much everything Magic Bullet does, After Effects can do alone. I downloaded the demo of Magic Bullet a long time ago, just so I could learn how to do all the things using only After Effects. Saved me a lot of money.

[Pacarus Maxilus]

Nooneimportant....Thanks!!! I will do my research and see what I can come up with. :)

[knightly]

the grain size in film is smaller due to the MUCH larger resolution. If you want to emulate that, uprez your footage and then apply the grain so the grain appears smaller.

I personally don't like the whole "How can I degrade my footage to look like film" discussion though. If it's just for a look, great - but if it's a "I have a DV camera and want it to look like film" thing, it'll never work. DV will never look like film. You can get somethings right, but those things are what Professional DPs and the Film Stock industry have been working really hard for hundreds of years to get rid of in their films. All of the grainy, vignetted, over/desaturated stuff that is pointed to on the web are all flaws to be avoided when shooting with actual film... they are technical mistakes and problems with the film format that drives people to lose sleep in hollywood.

[Pacarus Maxilus]

Knightly.. Good point.

I am not really looking for true film grain look I guess. I have been scoping out sites with test footage of the Canon HX a1 and have to admit I am falling in love with how the footage looks! It has that "Soft" feel that I am looking for. :)

[knightly]

I think the soft look your looking for is achieved through careful lighting, not through any magic digital ballyhoo.

The problem is getting the shadows closer to the highlights. The sharpness is primarily caused by missing detail in the shadows and blown out highlights. You can also see if you can turn down the sharpness/detail setting in your camera to get rid of the artificial edge sharpening that, if needed, can be added to your footage in post.

If you look at the handling of the whites in the image, you'll see that's where you're seeing the differences.

Lighting and exposure can just about make up for the detail/resolution differences. Light your shadows like the big hollywood folks do and you'll start seeing drastic changes in your images. Click your exposure down just slightly and your highlights will stop blowing out. The darks drop then, so add light to them. The alternative is to drop the light bits, but you don't want to risk getting video grain in your footage from not having enough light. Cameras capture light, give it to them... it's like brains to zombies :)

[TaseCopterStudios]

Magic Bullet.

Also, I think the Canon HV20 shoots 24p.

yep he's right. i have friend with that camera.

[WesScog]

Merged a lot of the "Film Look?" questions.

[NerdWithNoLife]

It's more the color in film that's different than video than the framerate, as a previous poster pointed out. But I have converted 30i video to 24p with AviSynth. For internet video, 24p may have an advantage because it has fewer frames per second, and a higher bitrate per frame. Cheap DV camcorder video is actually 60 fields per second, not exactly 30 frames per second. So it is possible to convert the footage to 60 frames per second and then pull out the right amount of frames to make 24p. Motion will be a little jerky though.

How to: Install AviSynth. Get Yadif (http://avisynth.org.ru/yadif/yadif09.zip). Open the zip. Go to Start > Programs > Avisynth > Plugin Directory. Drag Yadif.dll from the zip file to that plugin directory. Open Notepad. Paste this in:

LoadCPlugin("c:\Program Files\Avisynth 2.5\Plugins\yadif.dll")
AviSource("YourVideo.AVI")
Yadif(mode=1).SelectEvery(10,0,2,5,7)

Save it as "24p.avs" (put it in quotes). It must be saved in the same folder as YourVideo.AVI. Then drag 24p.avs into VirtualDub and you can save it as a 24p AVI file.